From HEUSSERM at student.gvsu.edu Mon Nov 3 10:08:05 2003 From: HEUSSERM at student.gvsu.edu (Matthew R. Heusser) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:34 2004 Subject: perl 6 presentation Message-ID: <1067875685.a415b240HEUSSERM@student.gvsu.edu> Those that missed GR.PM on Friday missed a great presentation on Perl6. Enough to get me salivating over the new language, to say the least. :-) Matt D. - any chance you could email the slides as a PPT (or PDF) to the list so we can get it up on our website? (Keynote format is ok in addition). You might want to just include the slides we actually covered, along with a cutesy "More coming in 2004" conclusion slide. thanks, Matt H. From albert.tobey at priority-health.com Mon Nov 3 10:45:33 2003 From: albert.tobey at priority-health.com (Al Tobey) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:34 2004 Subject: GR.pm librarian [and O'Reilly newsletter] Message-ID: <1067877933.1456.12.camel@linuxws1.internal.priority-health.com> I've taken over the O'Reilly stuff from Brandon. He put up a little resistance, but I came out victorious. Seriously, though, he sent out an email earlier this year asking for volunteers, and since I've been handling the book box all the while, I took it on. Thanks for your past service, Brandon. In other news, I should also be receiving new books from other publishers such as Prentice Hall and SAMS soon. I'm also looking at better ways to manage the library. Currently it lives at my desk and is non-portable. I think what will end up happening is that I'll write a CGI app for checking books out, which will be brought to meetings. We'll see. For now, if you want something, email me and I'll try to get it to you. -Al Tobey ---- ** ** ** PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL ** ** ** This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited and may be a violation of law. If you are not the intended recipient or a person responsible for delivering this message to an intended recipient, please delete the email and immediately notify the sender via the email return address or mailto:postmaster@priority-health.com. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Marsee Henon Subject: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, October 31 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:52:19 -0800 Size: 13492 Url: http://mail.pm.org/archives/grand-rapids-pm-list/attachments/20031103/5315b4cc/attachment.eml From HEUSSERM at student.gvsu.edu Mon Nov 3 11:49:33 2003 From: HEUSSERM at student.gvsu.edu (Matthew R. Heusser) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:34 2004 Subject: GR.pm librarian [and O'Reilly newsletter] Message-ID: <1067881773.737245e0HEUSSERM@student.gvsu.edu> >I think what will end up happening is that >I'll write a CGI app for checking books out, Maybe this should be a module and/or object we place on CPAN after massive GR.PM code review? :-) Matt H. -----Original Message----- From: Al Tobey To: "GR.pm" Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:45:33 -0500 Subject: GR.pm librarian [and O'Reilly newsletter] I've taken over the O'Reilly stuff from Brandon. He put up a little resistance, but I came out victorious. Seriously, though, he sent out an email earlier this year asking for volunteers, and since I've been handling the book box all the while, I took it on. Thanks for your past service, Brandon. In other news, I should also be receiving new books from other publishers such as Prentice Hall and SAMS soon. I'm also looking at better ways to manage the library. Currently it lives at my desk and is non-portable. I think what will end up happening is that I'll write a CGI app for checking books out, which will be brought to meetings. We'll see. For now, if you want something, email me and I'll try to get it to you. -Al Tobey ---- ** ** ** PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL ** ** ** This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited and may be a violation of law. If you are not the intended recipient or a person responsible for delivering this message to an intended recipient, please delete the email and immediately notify the sender via the email return address or mailto:postmaster@priority-health.com. Thank you. From albert.tobey at priority-health.com Wed Nov 5 09:53:34 2003 From: albert.tobey at priority-health.com (Al Tobey) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:34 2004 Subject: New books! Message-ID: <1068047614.1427.21.camel@linuxws1.internal.priority-health.com> >From O'Reilly: Perl Cookbook (second edition) Learning Perl Objects References & Modules >From SAMS: Teach Yourself Perl in 21 Days (second edition) mod_perl Developer's Cookbook Red Hat Linux 9 Unleashed Unix Shell Programming (third edition) Jabber Developer's Handbook Mono Kick Start Mac OS X Unleashed (second edition) MySQL (second edition) Linux Kernel Development - Robert Love We also have some coupons, "Born to Code" temporary tatoos, bookplates, and sticky-climber-throwing-star thingies from SAMS. These will be given away at a future (January?) meeting. I will have all of these (that haven't been checked out) available for browsing at the next meeting. -Al ** ** ** PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL ** ** ** This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited and may be a violation of law. If you are not the intended recipient or a person responsible for delivering this message to an intended recipient, please delete the email and immediately notify the sender via the email return address or mailto:postmaster@priority-health.com. Thank you. From steve.johnson at missionindia.org Wed Nov 12 08:49:44 2003 From: steve.johnson at missionindia.org (Steve Johnson) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:34 2004 Subject: Linux migration Message-ID: I have a non-Perl (but open source related) issue. I've used Redhat since before 4.x and have several servers running 7.x and higher. My primary applications are postgresql, apache, postfix, and antivir (none are RH specific apps, per se). Now the Redhat Linux line (more importantly to me, Redhat Network support) is being discontinued and I'm being forced to migrate to go to either the Fedora project or Redhat Enterprise, if I'm to stay with RH (and/or I can just support my systems by hand). I chose Redhat for three reasons: 1) I've got a lot of experience with it and basically like it. 2) I love the Redhat Network service--my cron jobs kept my systems fresh and toasty for a nominal fee. 3) Redhat looked like a successful, responsible company that understood the principles of open source and customer service. Do I stick it out with RH (I get 50% off on the annual fee for Enterprise for the first year) or move to something else? I don't have plans to move to new hardware, so a simple app migration to new boxes is not currently feasible (maybe in a year or two)--it would have to be an upgrade/re-install. I'm not "just a sysadmin" (I have many other obligations), so I don't have time to do everything by hand. I'd like my new distro/OS to provide: * A secure platform * A reliable platform * Automatic patches and updates * Security issue notifications * Free or reasonable fee for updates I'm considering just about anything (except Windows or SCO): * The usual big-distro suspects: Mandrake, SuSE, etc. * Gentoo Linux * Debian Linux * BSD's various flavors (especially OpenBSD) * Solaris So at the risk of starting a flame-war: * Who has experience with similar issues? * What would you use in a production environment requiring 99.999 up time? * Who else is looking at moving off RH and to something else? * Has anybody seen an analysis on this issue in the press or the web? Regards, sj From HEUSSERM at student.gvsu.edu Wed Nov 12 10:08:04 2003 From: HEUSSERM at student.gvsu.edu (Matthew R. Heusser) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:34 2004 Subject: Linux migration Message-ID: <1068653284.6b96c740HEUSSERM@student.gvsu.edu> I think Novell just bought SuSE. You might want to look into how SuSE is going to change in the next year or two. If you like what you hear ... Otherwise, I'd stick with RedHat. Matt H. -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Johnson" To: "Perl Monger's List" Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:49:44 -0500 Subject: Linux migration I have a non-Perl (but open source related) issue. I've used Redhat since before 4.x and have several servers running 7.x and higher. My primary applications are postgresql, apache, postfix, and antivir (none are RH specific apps, per se). Now the Redhat Linux line (more importantly to me, Redhat Network support) is being discontinued and I'm being forced to migrate to go to either the Fedora project or Redhat Enterprise, if I'm to stay with RH (and/or I can just support my systems by hand). I chose Redhat for three reasons: 1) I've got a lot of experience with it and basically like it. 2) I love the Redhat Network service--my cron jobs kept my systems fresh and toasty for a nominal fee. 3) Redhat looked like a successful, responsible company that understood the principles of open source and customer service. Do I stick it out with RH (I get 50% off on the annual fee for Enterprise for the first year) or move to something else? I don't have plans to move to new hardware, so a simple app migration to new boxes is not currently feasible (maybe in a year or two)--it would have to be an upgrade/re-install. I'm not "just a sysadmin" (I have many other obligations), so I don't have time to do everything by hand. I'd like my new distro/OS to provide: * A secure platform * A reliable platform * Automatic patches and updates * Security issue notifications * Free or reasonable fee for updates I'm considering just about anything (except Windows or SCO): * The usual big-distro suspects: Mandrake, SuSE, etc. * Gentoo Linux * Debian Linux * BSD's various flavors (especially OpenBSD) * Solaris So at the risk of starting a flame-war: * Who has experience with similar issues? * What would you use in a production environment requiring 99.999 up time? * Who else is looking at moving off RH and to something else? * Has anybody seen an analysis on this issue in the press or the web? Regards, sj From HEUSSERM at student.gvsu.edu Wed Nov 12 12:42:36 2003 From: HEUSSERM at student.gvsu.edu (Matthew R. Heusser) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:34 2004 Subject: Linux migration Message-ID: <1068662556.533f9e00HEUSSERM@student.gvsu.edu> >What would you use in a production >environment requiring 99.999 up time? Find a way to get away with four nines. Really, five is over-rated. Very little bang for the buck. :-) Matt H. -----Original Message----- From: "Matthew R. Heusser" To: steve.johnson@missionindia.org Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:08:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Linux migration I think Novell just bought SuSE. You might want to look into how SuSE is going to change in the next year or two. If you like what you hear ... Otherwise, I'd stick with RedHat. Matt H. -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Johnson" To: "Perl Monger's List" Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:49:44 -0500 Subject: Linux migration I have a non-Perl (but open source related) issue. I've used Redhat since before 4.x and have several servers running 7.x and higher. My primary applications are postgresql, apache, postfix, and antivir (none are RH specific apps, per se). Now the Redhat Linux line (more importantly to me, Redhat Network support) is being discontinued and I'm being forced to migrate to go to either the Fedora project or Redhat Enterprise, if I'm to stay with RH (and/or I can just support my systems by hand). I chose Redhat for three reasons: 1) I've got a lot of experience with it and basically like it. 2) I love the Redhat Network service--my cron jobs kept my systems fresh and toasty for a nominal fee. 3) Redhat looked like a successful, responsible company that understood the principles of open source and customer service. Do I stick it out with RH (I get 50% off on the annual fee for Enterprise for the first year) or move to something else? I don't have plans to move to new hardware, so a simple app migration to new boxes is not currently feasible (maybe in a year or two)--it would have to be an upgrade/re-install. I'm not "just a sysadmin" (I have many other obligations), so I don't have time to do everything by hand. I'd like my new distro/OS to provide: * A secure platform * A reliable platform * Automatic patches and updates * Security issue notifications * Free or reasonable fee for updates I'm considering just about anything (except Windows or SCO): * The usual big-distro suspects: Mandrake, SuSE, etc. * Gentoo Linux * Debian Linux * BSD's various flavors (especially OpenBSD) * Solaris So at the risk of starting a flame-war: * Who has experience with similar issues? * What would you use in a production environment requiring 99.999 up time? * Who else is looking at moving off RH and to something else? * Has anybody seen an analysis on this issue in the press or the web? Regards, sj From albert.tobey at priority-health.com Wed Nov 12 13:04:58 2003 From: albert.tobey at priority-health.com (Al Tobey) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:34 2004 Subject: Linux migration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1068663898.1558.64.camel@linuxws1.internal.priority-health.com> > I've used Redhat since before 4.x and have several servers > running 7.x and higher. My primary applications are postgresql, > apache, postfix, and antivir (none are RH specific apps, per se). I'm essentially in the same boat. > Now the Redhat Linux line (more importantly to me, Redhat Network > support) is being discontinued and I'm being forced to migrate to > go to either the Fedora project or Redhat Enterprise, if I'm to > stay with RH (and/or I can just support my systems by hand). There are plans to create the "Fedora Legacy" project, which would allow you to continue to get errata for your RH 7.x boxes. You'll be able to use yum or apt4rpm to automatically keep your boxes up to date much the same as you do now. Another option is to follow the errata for RH AS 2.1. 2.1 AS is really RH 7.2 with a new sticker and a few packages (like piranha). You can download the SRPMs from their site, then install on your system like this: rpmbuild --rebuild package.src.rpm rpm -Fvh /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386/package.i386.rpm Sometimes the version for 2.1 is lower than RH 7.3's, so you'll have to force the up/downgrade: rpm -Uvh --force /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386/package.i386.rpm > I chose Redhat for three reasons: > 1) I've got a lot of experience with it and basically like it. > 2) I love the Redhat Network service--my cron jobs kept my > systems fresh and toasty for a nominal fee. > 3) Redhat looked like a successful, responsible company that > understood the principles of open source and customer service. > Do I stick it out with RH (I get 50% off on the annual fee for > Enterprise for the first year) or move to something else? We bought RH Enterprise Linux. I can't say I'd recommend it for shops that don't require ISV (Independent Software Vendor) support. In fact, if you aren't running any major (Oracle/Veritas/DB2) proprietary software, I'd say it isn't worth the money. > I don't have plans to move to new hardware, so a simple app > migration to new boxes is not currently feasible (maybe in a year > or two)--it would have to be an upgrade/re-install. I'm not > "just a sysadmin" (I have many other obligations), so I don't > have time to do everything by hand. > > I'd like my new distro/OS to provide: > * A secure platform > * A reliable platform > * Automatic patches and updates > * Security issue notifications > * Free or reasonable fee for updates > > I'm considering just about anything (except Windows or SCO): > * The usual big-distro suspects: Mandrake, SuSE, etc. Mandrake has always been desktop oriented, so I'd not choose that for a server. My experience with SuSE is pretty limited, but I hear it's pretty good on a server. > * Gentoo Linux Absolutely not on a server. Great for a bleeding-edge desktop, but a server requires consistency. > * Debian Linux Excellent choice for a RH 7.x era replacement. Free updates, lots of public support, and always one of the first to patch security holes. It's probably also the most stable linux distribution in existence. > * BSD's various flavors (especially OpenBSD) No real experience ... Linux Rules! > * Solaris Slowaris is behind the times and will probably never perform as well as Linux or *BSD on an intel box. It just isn't their forte. Solaris on the AMD64 may be interesting, though (Linux will probably still be faster, though;) Slackware is usually a pretty good choice for a robust linux distribution that doesn't have a lot of cruft. It doesn't include NPTL, which I think is a good thing for a server distribution. It should run all of your RH 7.x apps fine. There is a tool called "swaret" which will keep it up to date with security and bug fixes automatically from cron. > So at the risk of starting a flame-war: > * Who has experience with similar issues? Well, me. > * What would you use in a production environment requiring 99.999 > up time? The best tool for the job. > * Who else is looking at moving off RH and to something else? Many people currently on RH 7.x are moving to Debian Stable, which is equivalent in terms of the base software. I'd second that move if you're really nervous about 7.x being unsupported - you can buy Debian stable support from a few places, such as Progeny. > * Has anybody seen an analysis on this issue in the press or the > web? Besides /. comments, no ;) > > Regards, > sj > ** ** ** PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL ** ** ** This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited and may be a violation of law. If you are not the intended recipient or a person responsible for delivering this message to an intended recipient, please delete the email and immediately notify the sender via the email return address or mailto:postmaster@priority-health.com. Thank you. From sscherbi at gfs.com Wed Nov 12 13:13:40 2003 From: sscherbi at gfs.com (Steve Scherbinski) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:34 2004 Subject: POTENTIAL SPAM::Re: Re: Linux migration Message-ID: You would need to decide if you need four nines also. The amount of downtime goes down dramatically for each nine. 99% uptime - 88 Hours down per year. 99.9% uptime - 8.8 Hours down per year. 99.99% uptime - 53 Minutes down per year. 99.999% uptime - 5.3 Minutes down per year. These were quick, back of the envelope calcs. I would consider 99% too low. However you need to decide how much uptime you need. What does routine maintenance on the server take, etc. As stated in a lot of places, each additional nine takes a lot more planning, process and bucks. You also have to get a good handle on change control for your server. It's a common statistic that 75% of down time is due to inadequate testing and planning of changes on the system. -- The future is here, it's just not evenly distributed yet. - William Gibson Steven Scherbinski System Administration - Gordon Food Service Office: (616) 717-7957 Fax: (616) 717-7550 >>> "Matthew R. Heusser" 11/12/03 01:42PM >>> >What would you use in a production >environment requiring 99.999 up time? Find a way to get away with four nines. Really, five is over-rated. Very little bang for the buck. :-) Matt H. -----Original Message----- From: "Matthew R. Heusser" To: steve.johnson@missionindia.org Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:08:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Linux migration I think Novell just bought SuSE. You might want to look into how SuSE is going to change in the next year or two. If you like what you hear ... Otherwise, I'd stick with RedHat. Matt H. -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Johnson" To: "Perl Monger's List" Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:49:44 -0500 Subject: Linux migration I have a non-Perl (but open source related) issue. I've used Redhat since before 4.x and have several servers running 7.x and higher. My primary applications are postgresql, apache, postfix, and antivir (none are RH specific apps, per se). Now the Redhat Linux line (more importantly to me, Redhat Network support) is being discontinued and I'm being forced to migrate to go to either the Fedora project or Redhat Enterprise, if I'm to stay with RH (and/or I can just support my systems by hand). I chose Redhat for three reasons: 1) I've got a lot of experience with it and basically like it. 2) I love the Redhat Network service--my cron jobs kept my systems fresh and toasty for a nominal fee. 3) Redhat looked like a successful, responsible company that understood the principles of open source and customer service. Do I stick it out with RH (I get 50% off on the annual fee for Enterprise for the first year) or move to something else? I don't have plans to move to new hardware, so a simple app migration to new boxes is not currently feasible (maybe in a year or two)--it would have to be an upgrade/re-install. I'm not "just a sysadmin" (I have many other obligations), so I don't have time to do everything by hand. I'd like my new distro/OS to provide: * A secure platform * A reliable platform * Automatic patches and updates * Security issue notifications * Free or reasonable fee for updates I'm considering just about anything (except Windows or SCO): * The usual big-distro suspects: Mandrake, SuSE, etc. * Gentoo Linux * Debian Linux * BSD's various flavors (especially OpenBSD) * Solaris So at the risk of starting a flame-war: * Who has experience with similar issues? * What would you use in a production environment requiring 99.999 up time? * Who else is looking at moving off RH and to something else? * Has anybody seen an analysis on this issue in the press or the web? Regards, sj From Jacob.Roersma at priority-health.com Wed Nov 12 13:39:08 2003 From: Jacob.Roersma at priority-health.com (Jacob.Roersma@priority-health.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:34 2004 Subject: POTENTIAL SPAM::Re: Re: Linux migration Message-ID: Are your uptime requirements for the machine or the application? If you are using Linux HA you could be pretty close to 5.3 minutes of downtime per year (depending on how long it takes for your applications to stop and start). To be safe I would stick with the 99.99% and still implement application failover with Linux HA. Good luck, Jake -----Original Message----- From: owner-grand-rapids-pm-list@pm.org [mailto:owner-grand-rapids-pm-list@pm.org]On Behalf Of Steve Scherbinski Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 2:14 PM To: HEUSSERM@student.gvsu.edu Cc: grand-rapids-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org; steve.johnson@missionindia.org Subject: POTENTIAL SPAM::Re: Re: Linux migration You would need to decide if you need four nines also. The amount of downtime goes down dramatically for each nine. 99% uptime - 88 Hours down per year. 99.9% uptime - 8.8 Hours down per year. 99.99% uptime - 53 Minutes down per year. 99.999% uptime - 5.3 Minutes down per year. These were quick, back of the envelope calcs. I would consider 99% too low. However you need to decide how much uptime you need. What does routine maintenance on the server take, etc. As stated in a lot of places, each additional nine takes a lot more planning, process and bucks. You also have to get a good handle on change control for your server. It's a common statistic that 75% of down time is due to inadequate testing and planning of changes on the system. -- The future is here, it's just not evenly distributed yet. - William Gibson Steven Scherbinski System Administration - Gordon Food Service Office: (616) 717-7957 Fax: (616) 717-7550 >>> "Matthew R. Heusser" 11/12/03 01:42PM >>> >What would you use in a production >environment requiring 99.999 up time? Find a way to get away with four nines. Really, five is over-rated. Very little bang for the buck. :-) Matt H. -----Original Message----- From: "Matthew R. Heusser" To: steve.johnson@missionindia.org Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:08:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Linux migration I think Novell just bought SuSE. You might want to look into how SuSE is going to change in the next year or two. If you like what you hear ... Otherwise, I'd stick with RedHat. Matt H. -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Johnson" To: "Perl Monger's List" Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:49:44 -0500 Subject: Linux migration I have a non-Perl (but open source related) issue. I've used Redhat since before 4.x and have several servers running 7.x and higher. My primary applications are postgresql, apache, postfix, and antivir (none are RH specific apps, per se). Now the Redhat Linux line (more importantly to me, Redhat Network support) is being discontinued and I'm being forced to migrate to go to either the Fedora project or Redhat Enterprise, if I'm to stay with RH (and/or I can just support my systems by hand). I chose Redhat for three reasons: 1) I've got a lot of experience with it and basically like it. 2) I love the Redhat Network service--my cron jobs kept my systems fresh and toasty for a nominal fee. 3) Redhat looked like a successful, responsible company that understood the principles of open source and customer service. Do I stick it out with RH (I get 50% off on the annual fee for Enterprise for the first year) or move to something else? I don't have plans to move to new hardware, so a simple app migration to new boxes is not currently feasible (maybe in a year or two)--it would have to be an upgrade/re-install. I'm not "just a sysadmin" (I have many other obligations), so I don't have time to do everything by hand. I'd like my new distro/OS to provide: * A secure platform * A reliable platform * Automatic patches and updates * Security issue notifications * Free or reasonable fee for updates I'm considering just about anything (except Windows or SCO): * The usual big-distro suspects: Mandrake, SuSE, etc. * Gentoo Linux * Debian Linux * BSD's various flavors (especially OpenBSD) * Solaris So at the risk of starting a flame-war: * Who has experience with similar issues? * What would you use in a production environment requiring 99.999 up time? * Who else is looking at moving off RH and to something else? * Has anybody seen an analysis on this issue in the press or the web? Regards, sj ** ** ** PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL ** ** ** This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited and may be a violation of law. If you are not the intended recipient or a person responsible for delivering this message to an intended recipient, please delete the email and immediately notify the sender via the email return address or mailto:postmaster@priority-health.com. Thank you. From williamday at email.com Thu Nov 13 12:19:27 2003 From: williamday at email.com (Bill Day) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:34 2004 Subject: Linux migration Message-ID: <20031113181927.18562.qmail@email.com> I have a couple of data points. Not really technical, more in the "Linux for suits" category. [Data Point 1] About 6 weeks ago I attended an HP/Redhat/Oracle vendor presentation. There were about 15 attendees. The Redhat guy was a no-show. This forced the HP guy to talk about twice as long as he was prepared to about HP CPUs. The highlight was the Oracle guy demonstrating their failover technolgy. I cannot describe how mind numbingly boring the HP presentation was. This morning I attended an IBM/Novell/Xiamian vendor presentation. Wow! What a difference. I estimate 150-200 attendees. Novell ran the show. They couldn't talk too much about SuSE because the merger isn't finalized. The Novell guy stressed Novell Enterprise services running on Linux. The Xiamian guy stressed the Enterprise client. The IBM guy... well we only had to listen to him for about 1/2 hour. My point is that these guys get it, they spent most of their time talking about the data center/network not about boxes. Novell on the Enterprise server, SuSE/Xiamian on the Enterprise client. [Data Point 2] Other than an early installation of Caldera, I've alway run Redhat as my Linux client. Last week I was at CompUSA, and scored a freebee SuSE 8.2 professional. Having experienced a recent disk crash, I decided it might be beneficial to install SuSE before attending today's presentation. I have more Linux experience than the last time I installed Redhat, so maybe this isn't fair, but the install seemed to be much easier. Chose a client install, the installer made some intelligent choices, and it installed. Redhat (maybe it was me) seemed to give me more choices, which made the install more difficult. I've got very little time on SuSE, so the insall is my only experience. The point of these stories is that Novell/SuSE/Xiamian appears poised to capture the enterprise market. This will fuel funding, which in my opinion will make them a long term winner. Steve, I know enterprise computing isn't your application, but going with the winner is always a good idea. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Johnson" Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:49:44 -0500 To: "Perl Monger''s List" Subject: Linux migration > I have a non-Perl (but open source related) issue. > > I've used Redhat since before 4.x and have several servers > running 7.x and higher. My primary applications are postgresql, > apache, postfix, and antivir (none are RH specific apps, per se). > > Now the Redhat Linux line (more importantly to me, Redhat Network > support) is being discontinued and I'm being forced to migrate to > go to either the Fedora project or Redhat Enterprise, if I'm to > stay with RH (and/or I can just support my systems by hand). > > I chose Redhat for three reasons: > 1) I've got a lot of experience with it and basically like it. > 2) I love the Redhat Network service--my cron jobs kept my > systems fresh and toasty for a nominal fee. > 3) Redhat looked like a successful, responsible company that > understood the principles of open source and customer service. > > Do I stick it out with RH (I get 50% off on the annual fee for > Enterprise for the first year) or move to something else? > > I don't have plans to move to new hardware, so a simple app > migration to new boxes is not currently feasible (maybe in a year > or two)--it would have to be an upgrade/re-install. I'm not > "just a sysadmin" (I have many other obligations), so I don't > have time to do everything by hand. > > I'd like my new distro/OS to provide: > * A secure platform > * A reliable platform > * Automatic patches and updates > * Security issue notifications > * Free or reasonable fee for updates > > I'm considering just about anything (except Windows or SCO): > * The usual big-distro suspects: Mandrake, SuSE, etc. > * Gentoo Linux > * Debian Linux > * BSD's various flavors (especially OpenBSD) > * Solaris > > So at the risk of starting a flame-war: > * Who has experience with similar issues? > * What would you use in a production environment requiring 99.999 > up time? > * Who else is looking at moving off RH and to something else? > * Has anybody seen an analysis on this issue in the press or the > web? > > Regards, > sj > -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup Search Smarter - get the new eXact Search Bar for free! http://www.exactsearchbar.com/ From matt at diephouse.com Sat Nov 15 14:26:01 2003 From: matt at diephouse.com (Matthew Diephouse) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:34 2004 Subject: perl 6 presentation In-Reply-To: <1067875685.a415b240HEUSSERM@student.gvsu.edu> References: <1067875685.a415b240HEUSSERM@student.gvsu.edu> Message-ID: Rather than fill everyone's mailboxes with my presentation, I posted the files on my website in quicktime and pdf format. You can, of course, feel free to post them directly on the GR.pm website. I can send out keynote and powerpoint versions too, if anyone desires them, but the file sizes were quite a bit larger, so I decided not to. http://matt.diephouse.com/presentations/Perl6Essentials.mov http://matt.diephouse.com/presentations/Perl6Essentials.pdf Glad you enjoyed the presentation. matt diephouse ---------------------- http://matt.diephouse.com On Nov 3, 2003, at 11:08 AM, Matthew R. Heusser wrote: > Those that missed GR.PM on Friday missed a great presentation on > Perl6. Enough to get me salivating over the new language, to say the > least. :-) > > Matt D. - any chance you could email the slides as a PPT (or PDF) to > the list so we can get it up on our website? (Keynote format is ok in > addition). > > You might want to just include the slides we actually covered, along > with a cutesy "More coming in 2004" conclusion slide. > > thanks, > > Matt H. From albert.tobey at priority-health.com Wed Nov 26 09:34:50 2003 From: albert.tobey at priority-health.com (Al Tobey) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:34 2004 Subject: [Fwd: Your Latest Book Review Copies from Addison-Wesley/Prentice Hall PTR] Message-ID: <1069860890.1377.19.camel@linuxws1.internal.priority-health.com> We need somebody to write a review for one at least one of these books. For some of you who want books, but may not want to pay for them, this is an excellent opportunity to get them for the price of writing a review. If nobody steps up, I'll probably take a poke at the Samba-3 book. ** ** ** PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL ** ** ** This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited and may be a violation of law. If you are not the intended recipient or a person responsible for delivering this message to an intended recipient, please delete the email and immediately notify the sender via the email return address or mailto:postmaster@priority-health.com. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Fox, Heather" Subject: Your Latest Book Review Copies from Addison-Wesley/Prentice Hall PTR Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:39:07 -0500 Size: 3534 Url: http://mail.pm.org/archives/grand-rapids-pm-list/attachments/20031126/58104453/attachment.eml From albert.tobey at priority-health.com Wed Nov 26 10:36:27 2003 From: albert.tobey at priority-health.com (Al Tobey) Date: Wed Aug 4 00:01:34 2004 Subject: [Fwd: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, November 25] Message-ID: <1069864586.1377.47.camel@linuxws1.internal.priority-health.com> O'Reilly news. Just like with Prentice-Hall, if anybody wants a book, let me know and you get it for the low-low cost of writing a review. O'Reilly actually encourages you to put it on Amazon or /., so the entry barrier is pretty low. Remember, if you review a book, it's yours to keep forever, not part of the GR.pm library. ** ** ** PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL ** ** ** This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited and may be a violation of law. If you are not the intended recipient or a person responsible for delivering this message to an intended recipient, please delete the email and immediately notify the sender via the email return address or mailto:postmaster@priority-health.com. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Marsee Henon Subject: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, November 25 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:07:42 -0800 Size: 18196 Url: http://mail.pm.org/archives/grand-rapids-pm-list/attachments/20031126/706edbba/attachment.eml