From robin.berjon at expway.fr Mon Jun 20 04:45:09 2005 From: robin.berjon at expway.fr (Robin Berjon) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:45:09 +0200 Subject: [Dahut-pm] questions about Catalyst Message-ID: <42B6AC45.9010407@expway.fr> Hi, has anyone here looked into Catalyst? I toyed a bit with it this week-end and it seems quite nice, and in line with a bunch of stuff that this gang's been interested in. So I've been wondering, have there been any thoughts along the lines of porting/merging SAWA to/into it? And then just have AxKit2 run on top of it? It has all sorts of goodies about it (the least of which isn't the fact that it runs on many servers, and it has this really neat built-in server you can use for development -- getting the Hello World app up and running took all of two minutes) and it looks like everything AxKit and SAWA need are there, modulo the XML goodness. Thoughts? -- Robin Berjon Senior Research Scientist Expway, http://expway.com/ From matt at sergeant.org Mon Jun 20 05:40:24 2005 From: matt at sergeant.org (Matt Sergeant) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:40:24 -0400 Subject: [Dahut-pm] questions about Catalyst In-Reply-To: <42B6AC45.9010407@expway.fr> References: <42B6AC45.9010407@expway.fr> Message-ID: On 20 Jun 2005, at 07:45, Robin Berjon wrote: > has anyone here looked into Catalyst? I toyed a bit with it this > week-end and it seems quite nice, and in line with a bunch of stuff > that > this gang's been interested in. > > So I've been wondering, have there been any thoughts along the lines of > porting/merging SAWA to/into it? And then just have AxKit2 run on top > of it? > > It has all sorts of goodies about it (the least of which isn't the fact > that it runs on many servers, and it has this really neat built-in > server you can use for development -- getting the Hello World app up > and > running took all of two minutes) and it looks like everything AxKit and > SAWA need are there, modulo the XML goodness. One of the things Catalyst (and Maypole and Ruby on Rails, etc) push is that the database is just an object storage mechanism. I think a database is so much more than that, and it can be very dangerous to just treat it as an Object dump. Great for simple apps, but does it scale up (not in terms of performance, but in terms of complexity). From robin.berjon at expway.fr Mon Jun 20 05:48:16 2005 From: robin.berjon at expway.fr (Robin Berjon) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:48:16 +0200 Subject: [Dahut-pm] questions about Catalyst In-Reply-To: References: <42B6AC45.9010407@expway.fr> Message-ID: <42B6BB10.6040401@expway.fr> Matt Sergeant wrote: > One of the things Catalyst (and Maypole and Ruby on Rails, etc) push is > that the database is just an object storage mechanism. I think a > database is so much more than that, and it can be very dangerous to just > treat it as an Object dump. I wasn't looking at the database parts, in fact I couldn't care less about that as usual :) The database part is just for funny people who want to do ugly things like SQL. Maypole was really limited to CRUD, but Catalyst isn't. I really like the clean way in which one can have many controllers and control the flow of data in interesting ways. > Great for simple apps, but does it scale up (not in terms of > performance, but in terms of complexity). I'll have to play some more, but while I think that's true of Maypole I'm not convinced it is of Catalyst. -- Robin Berjon Senior Research Scientist Expway, http://expway.com/ From chris at prather.org Wed Jun 22 10:55:05 2005 From: chris at prather.org (chris@prather.org) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:55:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Dahut-pm] questions about Catalyst In-Reply-To: <42B6AC45.9010407@expway.fr> References: <42B6AC45.9010407@expway.fr> Message-ID: <14090.167.206.189.3.1119462905.squirrel@webmail.nachbaur.com> > Hi, > > has anyone here looked into Catalyst? I toyed a bit with it this > week-end and it seems quite nice, and in line with a bunch of stuff that > this gang's been interested in. > > So I've been wondering, have there been any thoughts along the lines of > porting/merging SAWA to/into it? And then just have AxKit2 run on top of > it? > > It has all sorts of goodies about it (the least of which isn't the fact > that it runs on many servers, and it has this really neat built-in > server you can use for development -- getting the Hello World app up and > running took all of two minutes) and it looks like everything AxKit and > SAWA need are there, modulo the XML goodness. > > Thoughts? I've looked at the documentation for Catalyst. I haven't gone so far as to actually install anything yet. The thing that caught me was their use of helper scripts to automate building common functions. I've contemplated going about and doing this with SAWA. I originally looked at Maypole and how to integrate it with SAWA, but it did way too much Magic for me to feel comfortable, and when all was said and done it was CRUD only and that didn't seem right either. Catalyst sets a much nicer bar, so perhaps I'll explore it some more when I get back to thinking about SAWA hacking. Kip has some really neat koolaid he's been talking about that he wrote for $dayjob that builds SAWA apps in via a GUI, and Jim Smith has his XML language for writing statemachines that Kip and I were drooling over for SAWA. Out of Kip's $dayjob stuff came the RDF::Helper which seems to make dealing with RDF much more perlish (I'm planning on porting Bender to it RealSoonNow(TM)). I'd certainly like to see some more exploration of AxKit2 as a SAWA application in the future, but I understand that the first person thinking about it is dead busy with work-related things ... and the rest of us are not up to snuff on one of the two systems. -Chris From robin.berjon at expway.fr Mon Jun 27 17:27:05 2005 From: robin.berjon at expway.fr (Robin Berjon) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 02:27:05 +0200 Subject: [Dahut-pm] Fwd: SCXML Message-ID: <42C09959.6010400@expway.fr> DAHUT! I haven't at all had a chance to look at this, but a few parts of the abstract like "SCXML provides a generic state-machine based execution environment based on CCXML and Harel State Tables" triggered a dahut-synapse and I thought I'd send it here since the Voice stuff mostly goes unnoticed (note I'm writing this somewhere I have no connectivity so I know neither when it'll be online for real, nor when I'll be online to send this message :). -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Transition Request: SCXML Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:50:45 +0000 Resent-From: chairs at w3.org Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 07:50:25 -0700 From: James A. Larson To: timbl at w3.org, steve at w3.org CC: Philipp Hoschka , w3t-comm at w3.org, w3t-qa at w3.org, webreq at w3.org, chairs at w3.org, Max Froumentin , Kazuyuki Ashimura , Scott Mcglashan This is to request the first publication of the working draft for "State Chart XML (SCXML): State Machine Notation for control Abstraction." This language is a candidate for the control language within VoiceXML 3.0 (currently under development by the Voice Browser working group), CCXML 2.0 (anticipated development in 2006 by the Voice Browser working group), and the multimodal authoring language (under development by the Multimodal Interaction working group). 1. Document title State Chart XML (SCXML): State Machine Notation for control Abstraction 2. Document URI: http://www.w3.org/Voice/Group/2005/HST/SCXMLNotation.html 3. Estimated publication date: July 5 4. Record of the group's decision to advance: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-voice-wg/2005Jun/0085.html 5. Document Abstract: This document describes SCXML, or the "State Chart extensible Markup Language". SCXML provides a generic state-machine based execution environment based on CCXML and Harel State Tables. 6. Document Status section: /This section describes the status of this document at the time of its publication. Other documents may supersede this document. A list of current W3C publications and the latest revision of this technical report can be found in the W3C technical reports index at http://www.w3.org/TR/./ This document is the first Public Working Draft of SCXML for review by W3C Members and other interested parties, and has been developed by the Voice Browser Working Group (W3C Members Only) as part of the W3C Voice Browser Activity . Comments for this specification are welcomed to www-voice at w3.org (archives ). This document was produced under the 5 February 2004 W3C Patent Policy . The Working Group maintains a public list of patent disclosures relevant to this document ; that page also includes instructions for disclosing [and excluding] a patent. An individual who has actual knowledge of a patent which the individual believes contains Essential Claim(s) with respect to this specification should disclose the information in accordance with section 6 of the W3C Patent Policy. Publication as a Working Draft does not imply endorsement by the W3C Membership. This is a draft document and may be updated, replaced or obsoleted by other documents at any time. It is inappropriate to cite this document as other than work in progress. Regards, Jim Larson Co-chair, W3C Voice Browser Working Group -- Robin Berjon Senior Research Scientist Expway, http://expway.com/