From crome at devnetinc.com Wed Sep 1 14:22:30 2004 From: crome at devnetinc.com (Jason A. Crome) Date: Wed Sep 1 14:21:21 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible new meeting location Message-ID: <20040901183325.07090239426@beowulf.devnetinc.com> Hello all, I've been busily gathering information from Harper College in Palatine on what it would take to get our meetings moved there. So far, here's what I've come up with. Free rooms are generally not available unless a group is a Harper student organization with a faculty mentor. I can get us faculty support, but I've been warned that CIS enrollment there has been very dismal of late, and garnering enough student interest will be difficult. The non-free option may or may not be palatable. The Wojcik Conference Center at Harper is a self-supporting entity. They don't receive funding from either the college or property tax, and therefore has to generate it's own revenue. They have a variety of rooms for groups of about our size, complete with a projector, computer, and wireless net access. Typically, they charge $300 for room rental and additional if we want to use the projector and computer. That being said, my connection to the faculty there can get us the room for $225. They'll throw in the usage of the projector, etc. at no extra charge. If we're willing to commit to something rather long-term (10-12 months), they will probably cut the $225 down some. If we hold the mini-YAPC that's been discussed there, we can probably drive that cost down some more. We can get tours if we like before coming to any sort of decision, but it would probably be best if we went more than one or two at a time. What do you all think? Provided we can routinely draw enough people to make this reasonably affordable, is anyone opposed to paying a few bucks for meeting space? Any updates on other locations? -------------------------------------------------- Jason A. Crome Senior Software Engineer, DEVNET, Inc. E-Mail: crome@devnetinc.com http://www.devnetinc.com From crome at devnetinc.com Wed Sep 1 14:23:28 2004 From: crome at devnetinc.com (Jason A. Crome) Date: Wed Sep 1 14:22:19 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] PS Message-ID: <20040901183423.33863239421@beowulf.devnetinc.com> In case anyone is interested, you can learn more about the facility at http://www.harpercollege.edu/wcc/. -------------------------------------------------- Jason A. Crome Senior Software Engineer, DEVNET, Inc. E-Mail: crome@devnetinc.com http://www.devnetinc.com From shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 14:36:01 2004 From: shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com (Shawn Carroll) Date: Wed Sep 1 14:36:03 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible new meeting location In-Reply-To: <20040901183325.07090239426@beowulf.devnetinc.com> References: <20040901183325.07090239426@beowulf.devnetinc.com> Message-ID: Can I ask why the hell we are so focused on finding sites that far north of town? I live as far south as that is north, and I work downtown. Why can't we find something in the downtown area? On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:22:30 -0500, Jason A. Crome wrote: > Hello all, > > I've been busily gathering information from Harper College in Palatine on > what it would take to get our meetings moved there. So far, here's what > I've come up with. > > Free rooms are generally not available unless a group is a Harper student > organization with a faculty mentor. I can get us faculty support, but I've > been warned that CIS enrollment there has been very dismal of late, and > garnering enough student interest will be difficult. > > The non-free option may or may not be palatable. > > The Wojcik Conference Center at Harper is a self-supporting entity. They > don't receive funding from either the college or property tax, and therefore > has to generate it's own revenue. They have a variety of rooms for groups > of about our size, complete with a projector, computer, and wireless net > access. Typically, they charge $300 for room rental and additional if we > want to use the projector and computer. > > That being said, my connection to the faculty there can get us the room for > $225. They'll throw in the usage of the projector, etc. at no extra charge. > If we're willing to commit to something rather long-term (10-12 months), > they will probably cut the $225 down some. If we hold the mini-YAPC that's > been discussed there, we can probably drive that cost down some more. > > We can get tours if we like before coming to any sort of decision, but it > would probably be best if we went more than one or two at a time. > > What do you all think? Provided we can routinely draw enough people to make > this reasonably affordable, is anyone opposed to paying a few bucks for > meeting space? > > Any updates on other locations? > > -------------------------------------------------- > Jason A. Crome > Senior Software Engineer, DEVNET, Inc. > E-Mail: crome@devnetinc.com > http://www.devnetinc.com > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com Perl Programmer Soccer Referee From andy at petdance.com Wed Sep 1 14:40:17 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Wed Sep 1 14:40:19 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible new meeting location In-Reply-To: References: <20040901183325.07090239426@beowulf.devnetinc.com> Message-ID: <20040901194017.GA21142@petdance.com> On Wed, Sep 01, 2004 at 02:36:01PM -0500, Shawn Carroll (shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com) wrote: > Can I ask why the hell we are so focused on finding sites that far > north of town? I live as far south as that is north, and I work > downtown. Why can't we find something in the downtown area? Nobody's stopping you from doing so. xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From andy at petdance.com Wed Sep 1 14:43:33 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Wed Sep 1 14:43:35 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible new meeting location In-Reply-To: <20040901183325.07090239426@beowulf.devnetinc.com> References: <20040901183325.07090239426@beowulf.devnetinc.com> Message-ID: <20040901194333.GB21142@petdance.com> On Wed, Sep 01, 2004 at 02:22:30PM -0500, Jason A. Crome (crome@devnetinc.com) wrote: > The Wojcik Conference Center at Harper is a self-supporting entity. They > don't receive funding from either the college or property tax, and therefore It's a really nice room. I've been there for a CSPIN meeting and I was impressed. That it's $225 is hardly a surprise. :-( It probably WOULD be a great place to have a mini-YAPC. > What do you all think? Provided we can routinely draw enough people to make > this reasonably affordable, is anyone opposed to paying a few bucks for > meeting space? I don't think that a monthly tab like that is something that will sustain long-term. Otherwise, what if enough folks don't show up? The organizer gets stuck with the tab. I certainly don't want to turn Chicago.PM into a business where we have to worry about making the gate. xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From ehs at pobox.com Wed Sep 1 14:46:48 2004 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Wed Sep 1 14:46:50 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible new meeting location In-Reply-To: References: <20040901183325.07090239426@beowulf.devnetinc.com> Message-ID: <20040901194648.GF14499@chloe.inkdroid.org> On Wed, Sep 01, 2004 at 02:36:01PM -0500, Shawn Carroll wrote: > Can I ask why the hell we are so focused on finding sites that far > north of town? I live as far south as that is north, and I work > downtown. Why can't we find something in the downtown area? Is this a strange way of offering up space downtown...ye who work there :-) //Ed From crome at devnetinc.com Wed Sep 1 14:49:44 2004 From: crome at devnetinc.com (Jason A. Crome) Date: Wed Sep 1 14:48:34 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible new meeting location In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040901190038.2EA2E239424@beowulf.devnetinc.com> Personally, I'm not focused on finding something that far north. I happen to know someone there, they have decent facilities, and I thought I could get it cheap or free. Was only trying to help. If it's not acceptable, please find us other options. I'm in freaking DeKalb for crying out loud. If I'm willing to drive in, I can't see why others have such a problem. -------------------------------------------------- Jason A. Crome Senior Software Engineer, DEVNET, Inc. E-Mail: crome@devnetinc.com http://www.devnetinc.com > -----Original Message----- > From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org > [mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of Shawn Carroll > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 2:36 PM > To: Chicago.pm chatter > Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Possible new meeting location > > Can I ask why the hell we are so focused on finding sites > that far north of town? I live as far south as that is > north, and I work downtown. Why can't we find something in > the downtown area? > > On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:22:30 -0500, Jason A. Crome > wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > I've been busily gathering information from Harper College > in Palatine > > on what it would take to get our meetings moved there. So > far, here's > > what I've come up with. > > > > Free rooms are generally not available unless a group is a Harper > > student organization with a faculty mentor. I can get us faculty > > support, but I've been warned that CIS enrollment there has > been very > > dismal of late, and garnering enough student interest will > be difficult. > > > > The non-free option may or may not be palatable. > > > > The Wojcik Conference Center at Harper is a self-supporting > entity. > > They don't receive funding from either the college or property tax, > > and therefore has to generate it's own revenue. They have > a variety > > of rooms for groups of about our size, complete with a projector, > > computer, and wireless net access. Typically, they charge $300 for > > room rental and additional if we want to use the projector > and computer. > > > > That being said, my connection to the faculty there can get us the > > room for $225. They'll throw in the usage of the > projector, etc. at no extra charge. > > If we're willing to commit to something rather long-term (10-12 > > months), they will probably cut the $225 down some. If we hold the > > mini-YAPC that's been discussed there, we can probably > drive that cost down some more. > > > > We can get tours if we like before coming to any sort of > decision, but > > it would probably be best if we went more than one or two at a time. > > > > What do you all think? Provided we can routinely draw > enough people > > to make this reasonably affordable, is anyone opposed to > paying a few > > bucks for meeting space? > > > > Any updates on other locations? > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > Jason A. Crome > > Senior Software Engineer, DEVNET, Inc. > > E-Mail: crome@devnetinc.com > > http://www.devnetinc.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > -- > shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com > Perl Programmer > Soccer Referee > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From crome at devnetinc.com Wed Sep 1 14:53:33 2004 From: crome at devnetinc.com (Jason A. Crome) Date: Wed Sep 1 14:52:23 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible new meeting location In-Reply-To: <20040901194333.GB21142@petdance.com> Message-ID: <20040901190427.BBBE6239421@beowulf.devnetinc.com> > I don't think that a monthly tab like that is something that > will sustain long-term. Otherwise, what if enough folks > don't show up? The organizer gets stuck with the tab. I > certainly don't want to turn Chicago.PM into a business where > we have to worry about making the gate. > That's also my major concern :( I was really hoping for cheaper or free. And I don't think we'll get enough student interest to make it happen. If we don't go with this, I'll at least see what mini-YAPC would cost to host there. For something like that, their cost could be more manageable. -------------------------------------------------- Jason A. Crome Senior Software Engineer, DEVNET, Inc. E-Mail: crome@devnetinc.com http://www.devnetinc.com > -----Original Message----- > From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org > [mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of Andy Lester > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 2:44 PM > To: Chicago.pm chatter > Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Possible new meeting location > > On Wed, Sep 01, 2004 at 02:22:30PM -0500, Jason A. Crome > (crome@devnetinc.com) wrote: > > The Wojcik Conference Center at Harper is a self-supporting > entity. > > They don't receive funding from either the college or property tax, > > and therefore > > It's a really nice room. I've been there for a CSPIN meeting > and I was impressed. That it's $225 is hardly a surprise. > :-( It probably WOULD be a great place to have a mini-YAPC. > > > What do you all think? Provided we can routinely draw > enough people > > to make this reasonably affordable, is anyone opposed to > paying a few > > bucks for meeting space? > > I don't think that a monthly tab like that is something that > will sustain long-term. Otherwise, what if enough folks > don't show up? The organizer gets stuck with the tab. I > certainly don't want to turn Chicago.PM into a business where > we have to worry about making the gate. > > xoa > > -- > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => > AIM:petdance _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From jt at plainblack.com Wed Sep 1 15:26:03 2004 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Wed Sep 1 15:24:05 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible new meeting location In-Reply-To: <20040901190038.2EA2E239424@beowulf.devnetinc.com> Message-ID: >Personally, I'm not focused on finding something that far north. I happen >to know someone there, they have decent facilities, and I thought I could >get it cheap or free. Was only trying to help. If it's not acceptable, >please find us other options. I'm in freaking DeKalb for crying out loud. >If I'm willing to drive in, I can't see why others have such a problem. I know this is very far north, but it's where I live and work, so it's what I know. I know a few people at college of lake county. I think I can get a classroom for free. I'm going there tommorrow to find out for sure. But if nobody is willing to come up this far then I won't bother. JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From jt at plainblack.com Wed Sep 1 15:29:40 2004 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Wed Sep 1 15:30:05 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible new meeting location In-Reply-To: <20040901190427.BBBE6239421@beowulf.devnetinc.com> Message-ID: >If we don't go with this, I'll at least see what mini-YAPC would cost to >host there. For something like that, their cost could be more manageable. Depending upon what they charge for the projector and internet access that is kind of expensive for mini-YAPC. Many hotels will throw in the room for free, or give you a really cheap room provided they can expect catering, lodging, internet access, and other extras that we'll probably need anyway. I know, I just got done putting together the WebGUI User's Coference. JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From jt at plainblack.com Wed Sep 1 15:31:02 2004 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Wed Sep 1 15:30:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] PS In-Reply-To: <20040901183423.33863239421@beowulf.devnetinc.com> Message-ID: That's a very nice facility. On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:23:28 -0500 "Jason A. Crome" wrote: >In case anyone is interested, you can learn more about the facility at >http://www.harpercollege.edu/wcc/. > >-------------------------------------------------- >Jason A. Crome >Senior Software Engineer, DEVNET, Inc. >E-Mail: crome@devnetinc.com >http://www.devnetinc.com > >_______________________________________________ >Chicago-talk mailing list >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From crome at devnetinc.com Wed Sep 1 15:37:08 2004 From: crome at devnetinc.com (Jason A. Crome) Date: Wed Sep 1 15:35:59 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] PS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040901194802.DBCC5239422@beowulf.devnetinc.com> Thanks for the feedback :) Where is the College of Lake County anyhow? I can get us plenty of space out here, either with my company or Kishwaukee College (where I teach from time to time). But, like I was telling Andy, I'd likely be the only Perl Monger in attendance ;) -------------------------------------------------- Jason A. Crome Senior Software Engineer, DEVNET, Inc. E-Mail: crome@devnetinc.com http://www.devnetinc.com > -----Original Message----- > From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org > [mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of JT Smith > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 3:31 PM > To: Chicago.pm chatter > Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] PS > > That's a very nice facility. > > > On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:23:28 -0500 > "Jason A. Crome" wrote: > >In case anyone is interested, you can learn more about the > facility at > >http://www.harpercollege.edu/wcc/. > > > >-------------------------------------------------- > >Jason A. Crome > >Senior Software Engineer, DEVNET, Inc. > >E-Mail: crome@devnetinc.com > >http://www.devnetinc.com > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Chicago-talk mailing list > >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > JT ~ Plain Black > > Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From andy at petdance.com Wed Sep 1 15:42:04 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Wed Sep 1 15:42:06 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible new meeting location In-Reply-To: References: <20040901190038.2EA2E239424@beowulf.devnetinc.com> Message-ID: <20040901204204.GA21380@petdance.com> On Wed, Sep 01, 2004 at 03:26:03PM -0500, JT Smith (jt@plainblack.com) wrote: > I know this is very far north, but it's where I live and work, so it's what > I know. I know a few people at college of lake county. I think I can get a > classroom for free. I'm going there tommorrow to find out for sure. But if > nobody is willing to come up this far then I won't bother. Please please look. You've done so well for us in the past. :-) I'm also talking to the Palatine Public Library District. xoxo, andy -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From thomasoniii at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 15:52:25 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Wed Sep 1 15:52:29 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible new meeting location In-Reply-To: <20040901204204.GA21380@petdance.com> References: <20040901190038.2EA2E239424@beowulf.devnetinc.com> <20040901204204.GA21380@petdance.com> Message-ID: <5cfdfaf704090113522b961f21@mail.gmail.com> For those scoping places out, this is important information: http://efb.no-ip.com/locations.htm El Famous Burrito has 16 locations to serve us. -Jim..... From jt at plainblack.com Wed Sep 1 16:08:40 2004 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Wed Sep 1 16:06:42 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] PS In-Reply-To: <20040901194802.DBCC5239422@beowulf.devnetinc.com> Message-ID: >Thanks for the feedback :) The nice setup of that facility might be worth paying extra for the room. >Where is the College of Lake County anyhow? Grayslake. >I can get us plenty of space out here, either with my company or Kishwaukee >College (where I teach from time to time). But, like I was telling Andy, >I'd likely be the only Perl Monger in attendance ;) That is quite a ways out there. But unfortunately, Grayslake is too. The only good thing is that we would likely draw some people from Wisconsin in Grayslake. JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From frag at ripco.com Wed Sep 1 17:08:32 2004 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Wed Sep 1 17:08:36 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible new meeting location In-Reply-To: <20040901183325.07090239426@beowulf.devnetinc.com> References: <20040901183325.07090239426@beowulf.devnetinc.com> Message-ID: Everybody should check out the options available at their local library. Some seem to have nice rooms, with projectors available, although money may be required, and they may require that the applicant (or even some percentage of the group's members) come from the city. -- Mike F. From andy at petdance.com Wed Sep 1 17:31:54 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Wed Sep 1 17:31:57 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible new meeting location In-Reply-To: References: <20040901183325.07090239426@beowulf.devnetinc.com> Message-ID: <20040901223154.GA21627@petdance.com> On Wed, Sep 01, 2004 at 05:08:32PM -0500, Mike Fragassi (frag@ripco.com) wrote: > > Everybody should check out the options available at their local library. > Some seem to have nice rooms, with projectors available, although money > may be required, and they may require that the applicant (or even some > percentage of the group's members) come from the city. Vernon Hills requires 50%, and we can't meet >9x/yr. Arlington Heights sounded very wary of a regular meeting. Palatine is looking like our best option, and they're not far from the train. They have a TV projector, but not a VGA one. Not sure how that will work for presentations. Anyone else done VGA-RCA dongle-fu? xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From frag at ripco.com Wed Sep 1 18:09:01 2004 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Wed Sep 1 18:09:05 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible new meeting location In-Reply-To: <20040901223154.GA21627@petdance.com> References: <20040901183325.07090239426@beowulf.devnetinc.com> <20040901223154.GA21627@petdance.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Sep 2004, Andy Lester wrote: > Vernon Hills requires 50%, and we can't meet >9x/yr. Arlington Heights > sounded very wary of a regular meeting. > > Palatine is looking like our best option, and they're not far from the > train. They have a TV projector, but not a VGA one. Not sure how that > will work for presentations. Anyone else done VGA-RCA dongle-fu? I need to follow up on it, but Evanston said that just being open to the public is OK. 2 rooms are available: 24 people with only a VCR/monitor for $40 ($25 for room, $15 for AV, or 144 people with a video projector for $65 (50 for room, 15 for projector). Anyone try any north suburban hotels? -- Mike F. From shild at sbcglobal.net Wed Sep 1 19:09:13 2004 From: shild at sbcglobal.net (Scott T. Hildreth) Date: Wed Sep 1 19:08:21 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] TPJ Message-ID: <1094083752.93854.31.camel@localhost> Andy, Just downloaded my the August TPJ today. Nice article on the OSCON. From andy at petdance.com Wed Sep 1 20:38:56 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Wed Sep 1 20:38:58 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Re: TPJ In-Reply-To: <1094083752.93854.31.camel@localhost> References: <1094083752.93854.31.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Sep 1, 2004, at 7:09 PM, Scott T. Hildreth wrote: > > Just downloaded my the August TPJ today. > Nice article on the OSCON. Thanks. Glad to know someone's reading... xoa :wq -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From andy at petdance.com Wed Sep 1 20:54:34 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Wed Sep 1 20:54:37 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible new meeting location In-Reply-To: References: <20040901183325.07090239426@beowulf.devnetinc.com> <20040901223154.GA21627@petdance.com> Message-ID: <09FE38BC-FC83-11D8-8EA2-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> > I need to follow up on it, but Evanston said that just being open to > the > public is OK. 2 rooms are available: 24 people with only a VCR/monitor > for $40 ($25 for room, $15 for AV, or 144 people with a video projector > for $65 (50 for room, 15 for projector). What if they took trade in swag? "We'll get you $100 of books from our sponsors (ORA, Sams, etc) in lieu of the $65" I asked Palatine about that, and they'll get back to me. xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From jt at plainblack.com Thu Sep 2 18:10:12 2004 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Thu Sep 2 18:07:57 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] I've got a place!!! Message-ID: Ok. I don't know if anyone will like it, but worst case scenario, I've got a nice quiet place with tables, chairs, and a projector. Did I mention that they won't charge us a dime to use the facility? Apparently that's where my outrageously high property taxes are going. But since I'm paying for it anyway, we might as well use it! =) It's the Grayslake Library. Grayslake is pretty far north of Chicago, but there is a Metra stop about a mile from the library, so it should be pretty easy for people to hop a train out here if needed. In addition to the room and lcd projector, they also have a coffee maker, slide projector, overhead projector, analog modem access, portable mics, tv, vcr, piano, and a podium. We can use any of that stuff for free. The first and second tuesdays of the month are already booked, but we can try to come up with another scheduled date. Currently October 6th and 13th are both available for the october meeting. But that is of course subject to change. I should also note that there are plenty of diners, restaurants, pubs, and even a pool all nearby. So if we want to do any social stuff before or after, that's still doable. Let me know what you guys think so I can reserve the room if necessary. JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From mongers at bsod.net Thu Sep 2 23:42:19 2004 From: mongers at bsod.net (Pete Krawczyk) Date: Thu Sep 2 23:42:22 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] I've got a place!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Subject: [Chicago-talk] I've got a place!!! From: JT Smith Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 18:10:12 -0500 }It's the Grayslake Library. Grayslake is pretty far north of Chicago, but }there is a Metra stop about a mile from the library, so it should be }pretty easy for people to hop a train out here if needed. I think it sounds good for now, especially in the absense of any other options. It certainly beats some smoke-filled bar downtown :-) I would also be willing to help transport people from the train to the library if necessary. Of course, I may be biased living in McHenry, but then again even if the meeting was downtown or in the southwest suburbs I'd still travel once a month to get there. }Let me know what you guys think so I can reserve the room if necessary. I would vote to get the room reserved for the regular meeting date of October 6th. That way we have a place to meet for sure. There aren't too many places with those facilities that will be available for cheap on short notice. Thanks for finding that! I'm sure other people appreciate it, too. -Pete K From jt at plainblack.com Thu Sep 2 23:54:23 2004 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Thu Sep 2 23:52:28 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] I've got a place!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: BTW. It seems to me that Chicago should be big enough that we could have a north and a south meeting. Share the same mailing list, etc. And then we all come together for our mini-YAPC what does everyone think of that? On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 23:42:19 -0500 (CDT) Pete Krawczyk wrote: >Subject: [Chicago-talk] I've got a place!!! >From: JT Smith >Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 18:10:12 -0500 > >}It's the Grayslake Library. Grayslake is pretty far north of Chicago, but >}there is a Metra stop about a mile from the library, so it should be >}pretty easy for people to hop a train out here if needed. > >I think it sounds good for now, especially in the absense of any other >options. It certainly beats some smoke-filled bar downtown :-) I would >also be willing to help transport people from the train to the library if >necessary. > >Of course, I may be biased living in McHenry, but then again even if the >meeting was downtown or in the southwest suburbs I'd still travel once a >month to get there. > >}Let me know what you guys think so I can reserve the room if necessary. > >I would vote to get the room reserved for the regular meeting date of >October 6th. That way we have a place to meet for sure. There aren't too >many places with those facilities that will be available for cheap on >short notice. > >Thanks for finding that! I'm sure other people appreciate it, too. > >-Pete K > >_______________________________________________ >Chicago-talk mailing list >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From andy at petdance.com Fri Sep 3 07:52:03 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Fri Sep 3 07:52:04 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] I've got a place!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040903125202.GA28024@petdance.com> On Thu, Sep 02, 2004 at 11:54:23PM -0500, JT Smith (jt@plainblack.com) wrote: > BTW. > > It seems to me that Chicago should be big enough that we could have a north > and a south meeting. Share the same mailing list, etc. And then we all come > together for our mini-YAPC I agree 100%. There's nothing stopping a city-based group from getting together. Let's go with Grayslake for October and see what happens. JT, can you please do the reserving? Who wants to speak? Or should we do another session of Monster Garage? xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From jt at plainblack.com Fri Sep 3 09:34:44 2004 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Fri Sep 3 09:32:48 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] I've got a place!!! In-Reply-To: <20040903125202.GA28024@petdance.com> Message-ID: >Let's go with Grayslake for October and see what happens. JT, can you >please do the reserving? I'm on it. JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From jason at multiply.org Fri Sep 3 09:49:43 2004 From: jason at multiply.org (jason@multiply.org) Date: Fri Sep 3 09:49:57 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] I've got a place!!! In-Reply-To: <20040903125202.GA28024@petdance.com> References: <20040903125202.GA28024@petdance.com> Message-ID: <1094222983.41388487a0469@manage.multiply.org> I would be willing to do a Mason talk, if interest is there. -jason gessner jason@multiply.org ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From crome at devnetinc.com Fri Sep 3 09:55:27 2004 From: crome at devnetinc.com (Jason A. Crome) Date: Fri Sep 3 09:54:23 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] I've got a place!!! In-Reply-To: <1094222983.41388487a0469@manage.multiply.org> Message-ID: <20040903140625.60AA623941F@beowulf.devnetinc.com> Can't speak for others, but I for one would be interested! -------------------------------------------------- Jason A. Crome Senior Software Engineer, DEVNET, Inc. E-Mail: crome@devnetinc.com http://www.devnetinc.com > -----Original Message----- > From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org > [mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of > jason@multiply.org > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 9:50 AM > To: Chicago.pm chatter > Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] I've got a place!!! > > I would be willing to do a Mason talk, if interest is there. > > -jason gessner > jason@multiply.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From shild at sbcglobal.net Sat Sep 4 09:22:40 2004 From: shild at sbcglobal.net (Scott T. Hildreth) Date: Sat Sep 4 09:21:09 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] I've got a place!!! In-Reply-To: <1094222983.41388487a0469@manage.multiply.org> References: <20040903125202.GA28024@petdance.com> <1094222983.41388487a0469@manage.multiply.org> Message-ID: <1094307759.93854.154.camel@localhost> I would be interested.. On Fri, 2004-09-03 at 09:49, jason@multiply.org wrote: > I would be willing to do a Mason talk, if interest is there. > > -jason gessner > jason@multiply.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk From jt at plainblack.com Sat Sep 4 09:48:08 2004 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Sat Sep 4 09:45:42 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] I've got a place!!! In-Reply-To: <1094307759.93854.154.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Ok. The Grayslake Library is all set for us for October 6th. We have the room from 6:30 to 8:45. The library closes at 9pm so they want us to wrap up our meeting and get the f### out at 8:45. =) I also talked to their local computer guy. He's got a T1 that he's willing to give us partial access to (256k) for FREE!!! He's setting up the firewall to allow us WiFi access with our own computers. However, he said he's not sure he'll have time to get to it for October. If he doesn't get to it in time, he'll hook us up with a computer so we can at least get to the net if necessary. And the segmented T will definitely be available for November if we decide to rebook. JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From andy at petdance.com Sat Sep 4 23:20:29 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Sat Sep 4 23:20:31 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Phalanx prep for Tuesday's meeting Message-ID: We've got HTML::Tree in svn.perl.org as our version control. If you bring a laptop, you'll be able to get live updates from the repository as I commit them. Note that we're using Subversion, not CVS. That's at http://subversion.tigris.org. xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From jason at multiply.org Sun Sep 5 00:06:47 2004 From: jason at multiply.org (jason scott gessner) Date: Sun Sep 5 00:06:34 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Phalanx prep for Tuesday's meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1094360807.17798.2.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2004-09-04 at 23:20, Andy Lester wrote: > We've got HTML::Tree in svn.perl.org as our version control. can you post a quick cheat sheet for those of us who have yet to move to subversion? thanks! -jason gessner jason@multiply.org From andy at petdance.com Sun Sep 5 00:21:03 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Sun Sep 5 00:21:05 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Phalanx prep for Tuesday's meeting In-Reply-To: <1094360807.17798.2.camel@localhost> References: <1094360807.17798.2.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <6157DE64-FEFB-11D8-B608-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> >> We've got HTML::Tree in svn.perl.org as our version control. > > can you post a quick cheat sheet for those of us who have yet to move > to > subversion? Main web site is http://subversion.tigris.org/ The free online book is http://svnbook.red-bean.com/. Appendix A of the book is "subversion for CVS users" http://svnbook.red-bean.com/svnbook/apa.html For the most part, it's the same. Get a subversion client, and do this: svn co http://svn.perl.org/phalanx xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From easyasy2k at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 00:55:05 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Sun Sep 5 00:55:11 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Phalanx prep for Tuesday's meeting In-Reply-To: <1094360807.17798.2.camel@localhost> References: <1094360807.17798.2.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <2df270ef040904225516ac4dc5@mail.gmail.com> Also there's this: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2004/08/19/subversiontips.html On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 00:06:47 -0500, jason scott gessner wrote: > On Sat, 2004-09-04 at 23:20, Andy Lester wrote: > > We've got HTML::Tree in svn.perl.org as our version control. > > can you post a quick cheat sheet for those of us who have yet to move to > subversion? > > thanks! > > -jason gessner > jason@multiply.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From andy at petdance.com Sun Sep 5 22:25:26 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Sun Sep 5 22:25:29 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Subversion is coolness Message-ID: <20040906032526.GB10482@petdance.com> I have seen the light. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/5544 xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From andy at petdance.com Sun Sep 5 22:28:36 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Sun Sep 5 22:28:39 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Reminder: Perl Monster Garage on Tuesday! Message-ID: <20040906032836.GC10482@petdance.com> Tuesday night will be Perl Monster Garage out in Vernon Hills! Come join us at 7pm to help create tests for HTML::Tree! Live and onstage! No smoke, no mirrors, just automated testing goodness! It'll be our last meeting at WDI, so come help us trash the place! (Well, let's not trash the place, but we WILL use their electricity!) For details and directions, see http://chicago.pm.org/meetings/ See you there! xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From jason at multiply.org Sun Sep 5 23:36:26 2004 From: jason at multiply.org (jason scott gessner) Date: Sun Sep 5 23:36:08 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Reminder: Perl Monster Garage on Tuesday! In-Reply-To: <20040906032836.GC10482@petdance.com> References: <20040906032836.GC10482@petdance.com> Message-ID: <1094445386.7253.3.camel@localhost> I vaguely recall some people coming in from the Metra station to the meetings. Will anyone be doing this on tuesday? I will be coming from downtown and won't be able to drive tuesday. Also, will anyone be driving to the meeting that will be headed home to the western suburbs? I am in Bartlett (just west of Schaumburg, just north of Aurora) and am looking for a ride back from the meeting. Anyone headed this way? Thanks!! -jason gessner jason@multiply.org From frag at ripco.com Mon Sep 6 00:16:42 2004 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Mon Sep 6 00:16:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] I've got a place!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You should probably make it extra, triply clear, that this meeting is on a Wednesday, *NOT* the usual Tuesday. --- Mike F. On Sat, 4 Sep 2004, JT Smith wrote: > Ok. The Grayslake Library is all set for us for October 6th. We have the room from 6:30 > to 8:45. The library closes at 9pm so they want us to wrap up our meeting and get the > f### out at 8:45. =) From frag at ripco.com Mon Sep 6 00:19:45 2004 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Mon Sep 6 00:19:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Reminder: Perl Monster Garage on Tuesday! In-Reply-To: <1094445386.7253.3.camel@localhost> References: <20040906032836.GC10482@petdance.com> <1094445386.7253.3.camel@localhost> Message-ID: I can probably pick up someone from the train station in Vernon Hills. (Or the Lake-Cook stop that I believe is on the same line.) But I head back into the city afterwards. -- Mike F. On Sun, 5 Sep 2004, jason scott gessner wrote: > I vaguely recall some people coming in from the Metra station to the > meetings. Will anyone be doing this on tuesday? I will be coming from > downtown and won't be able to drive tuesday. > > Also, will anyone be driving to the meeting that will be headed home to > the western suburbs? I am in Bartlett (just west of Schaumburg, just > north of Aurora) and am looking for a ride back from the meeting. > > Anyone headed this way? > > Thanks!! > > -jason gessner > jason@multiply.org > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From jason at multiply.org Mon Sep 6 00:24:47 2004 From: jason at multiply.org (jason scott gessner) Date: Mon Sep 6 00:24:29 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Reminder: Perl Monster Garage on Tuesday! In-Reply-To: References: <20040906032836.GC10482@petdance.com> <1094445386.7253.3.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1094448287.7251.5.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2004-09-06 at 00:19, Mike Fragassi wrote: > I can probably pick up someone from the train station in Vernon Hills. > (Or the Lake-Cook stop that I believe is on the same line.) > But I head back into the city afterwards. sweet. halfway there! -jason gessner jason@multiply.org From jt at plainblack.com Mon Sep 6 00:39:27 2004 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Mon Sep 6 00:37:03 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] I've got a place!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oh yeah. Sorry. I thought I said that when I originally offered. But you're right. We should say it every time. It's WEDNESDAY!! =) On Mon, 6 Sep 2004 00:16:42 -0500 (CDT) Mike Fragassi wrote: > >You should probably make it extra, triply clear, that this meeting is on >a Wednesday, *NOT* the usual Tuesday. > >--- Mike F. > >On Sat, 4 Sep 2004, JT Smith wrote: > >> Ok. The Grayslake Library is all set for us for October 6th. We have the room from >>6:30 >> to 8:45. The library closes at 9pm so they want us to wrap up our meeting and get the >> f### out at 8:45. =) >_______________________________________________ >Chicago-talk mailing list >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From petemar1 at perlmonk.org Mon Sep 6 13:02:39 2004 From: petemar1 at perlmonk.org (petemar1) Date: Mon Sep 6 13:02:41 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] I've got a place!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Whatever happened to the Loop? http://petemar1.perlmonk.org http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=26274 http://chicago.pm.org/members.html http://people.cs.uchicago.edu/~petemar1 On Mon, 6 Sep 2004, JT Smith wrote: > Oh yeah. Sorry. I thought I said that when I originally offered. But you're right. We > should say it every time. It's WEDNESDAY!! =) > > On Mon, 6 Sep 2004 00:16:42 -0500 (CDT) > Mike Fragassi wrote: > > > >You should probably make it extra, triply clear, that this meeting is on > >a Wednesday, *NOT* the usual Tuesday. > > > >--- Mike F. > > > >On Sat, 4 Sep 2004, JT Smith wrote: > > > >> Ok. The Grayslake Library is all set for us for October 6th. We have the room from > >>6:30 > >> to 8:45. The library closes at 9pm so they want us to wrap up our meeting and get the > >> f### out at 8:45. =) > >_______________________________________________ > >Chicago-talk mailing list > >Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > JT ~ Plain Black > > Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From ehs at pobox.com Mon Sep 6 13:08:12 2004 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Mon Sep 6 13:08:14 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] I've got a place!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040906180812.GA16931@chloe.inkdroid.org> On Mon, Sep 06, 2004 at 02:02:39PM -0400, petemar1 wrote: > Whatever happened to the Loop? I was in Chicago on Friday and it was still there. Seriously though, do you have a location in the loop where we could meet and do presentations? //Ed From esinclai at pobox.com Mon Sep 6 13:26:39 2004 From: esinclai at pobox.com (Eric Sinclair) Date: Mon Sep 6 13:26:44 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] I've got a place!!! In-Reply-To: <20040906180812.GA16931@chloe.inkdroid.org> References: <20040906180812.GA16931@chloe.inkdroid.org> Message-ID: <4B683B97-0032-11D9-AABE-000A956859A6@pobox.com> On Sep 6, 2004, at 1:08 PM, Ed Summers wrote: > On Mon, Sep 06, 2004 at 02:02:39PM -0400, petemar1 wrote: >> Whatever happened to the Loop? > > I was in Chicago on Friday and it was still there. Seriously though, > do you have a location in the loop where we could meet and do > presentations? Well, Brian Fitzpatrick gave me a lead on who to speak to at the Apple Store on N. Michigan Ave about using their theatre. I've dropped the an email to see about using that space... -Eric -- esinclai@pobox.com aim: esinclai http://www.kittyjoyce.com/eric/log/ From andy at petdance.com Mon Sep 6 13:38:03 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Sep 6 13:38:06 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] I've got a place!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040906183803.GA1460@petdance.com> On Mon, Sep 06, 2004 at 02:02:39PM -0400, petemar1 (petemar1@perlmonk.org) wrote: > Whatever happened to the Loop? Find a place, and we'll meet there. xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From lembark at wrkhors.com Mon Sep 6 20:39:08 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Sep 6 20:39:36 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Subversion is coolness In-Reply-To: <20040906032526.GB10482@petdance.com> References: <20040906032526.GB10482@petdance.com> Message-ID: <4C1564AB53F819F0203501C2@duke.wrkhors.com> -- Andy Lester > http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/5544 You might also want to get the doc's... O'Reilly has a good book out by the svn authors (I'm reviewing it now). So far using it here, the idea seems rather nice. Main annoyance/feature is that since the repository is a database there isn't a good way to tweak it by hand; but then you don't really HAVE to tweak it much :-) -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From andy at petdance.com Mon Sep 6 20:49:30 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Sep 6 20:49:32 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Subversion is coolness In-Reply-To: <4C1564AB53F819F0203501C2@duke.wrkhors.com> References: <20040906032526.GB10482@petdance.com> <4C1564AB53F819F0203501C2@duke.wrkhors.com> Message-ID: <20040907014930.GA3971@petdance.com> On Mon, Sep 06, 2004 at 09:39:08PM -0400, Steven Lembark (lembark@wrkhors.com) wrote: > >http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/5544 > > You might also want to get the doc's... O'Reilly has a good book > out by the svn authors (I'm reviewing it now). So far using it here, Yes, I discussed that in the blog entry. -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From jason at multiply.org Mon Sep 6 21:03:29 2004 From: jason at multiply.org (jason scott gessner) Date: Mon Sep 6 21:03:08 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Subversion is coolness In-Reply-To: <20040907014930.GA3971@petdance.com> References: <20040906032526.GB10482@petdance.com> <4C1564AB53F819F0203501C2@duke.wrkhors.com> <20040907014930.GA3971@petdance.com> Message-ID: <1094522609.23705.2.camel@localhost> thanks for the resource links all, but i was pretty much just looking for enough to do a checkout for the meeting. :) -jason gessner jason@multiply.org On Mon, 2004-09-06 at 20:49, Andy Lester wrote: > On Mon, Sep 06, 2004 at 09:39:08PM -0400, Steven Lembark (lembark@wrkhors.com) wrote: > > >http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/5544 > > > > You might also want to get the doc's... O'Reilly has a good book > > out by the svn authors (I'm reviewing it now). So far using it here, > > Yes, I discussed that in the blog entry. > From dha at panix.com Mon Sep 6 23:45:45 2004 From: dha at panix.com (David H. Adler) Date: Mon Sep 6 23:45:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Subversion is coolness In-Reply-To: <20040906032526.GB10482@petdance.com> References: <20040906032526.GB10482@petdance.com> Message-ID: <20040907044545.GA9129@panix.com> On Sun, Sep 05, 2004 at 10:25:26PM -0500, Andy Lester wrote: > I have seen the light. > > http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/5544 the light would be a lot less dim if the darned thing would actually *install* properly. dha, admits that he seems to be the only one with this problem -- David H. Adler - - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ I'm already not yet convinced. - Larry Wall From andy at petdance.com Mon Sep 6 23:54:57 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Sep 6 23:54:59 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Subversion is coolness In-Reply-To: <20040907044545.GA9129@panix.com> References: <20040906032526.GB10482@petdance.com> <20040907044545.GA9129@panix.com> Message-ID: <1147BD66-008A-11D9-8BB4-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> > the light would be a lot less dim if the darned thing would actually > *install* properly. > > dha, admits that he seems to be the only one with this problem You're on OSX? I can't get it to compile there, either, so I've installed binaries. xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From lembark at wrkhors.com Tue Sep 7 09:24:00 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Tue Sep 7 09:24:30 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Subversion is coolness In-Reply-To: <20040907044545.GA9129@panix.com> References: <20040906032526.GB10482@petdance.com> <20040907044545.GA9129@panix.com> Message-ID: <3842466F40D4660B1F385AD6@duke.wrkhors.com> > the light would be a lot less dim if the darned thing would actually > *install* properly. > > dha, admits that he seems to be the only one with this problem Installing on what platform? Which source (e.g., rpm, tarball)? I've used both 1.0.6 from SuSE-9.1 and the tarball, both seemed happy enough even with '-O3 -march=pentium3'. I'd updated my DB release to the current one first, which may have helped. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From jason at multiply.org Tue Sep 7 11:07:00 2004 From: jason at multiply.org (jason@multiply.org) Date: Tue Sep 7 11:07:12 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] anyone driving home to western burbs after meeting? Message-ID: <1094573220.413ddca471e39@manage.multiply.org> Hi All. I figure i will give it another shot before the meeting tonight. Is anyone going near Bartlett(east of elgin, west of schaumburg, north of aurora) after the meeting tonight? Frag said he could pick me up but he is headed back to the city after the meeting. Please let me know if anyone can help out. Thanks! -jason gessner jason@multiply.org ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From crome at devnetinc.com Tue Sep 7 11:13:02 2004 From: crome at devnetinc.com (Jason A. Crome) Date: Tue Sep 7 11:11:51 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] anyone driving home to western burbs after meeting? In-Reply-To: <1094573220.413ddca471e39@manage.multiply.org> Message-ID: <20040907152408.8716D23941F@beowulf.devnetinc.com> It's not entirely on my way home, but its not out of the way either. In any case, I'll be happy to help :) -------------------------------------------------- Jason A. Crome Senior Software Engineer, DEVNET, Inc. E-Mail: crome@devnetinc.com http://www.devnetinc.com > -----Original Message----- > From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org > [mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org] On Behalf Of > jason@multiply.org > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 11:07 AM > To: Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > Subject: [Chicago-talk] anyone driving home to western burbs > after meeting? > > Hi All. > > I figure i will give it another shot before the meeting > tonight. Is anyone going near Bartlett(east of elgin, west > of schaumburg, north of aurora) after the meeting tonight? > Frag said he could pick me up but he is headed back to the > city after the meeting. > > Please let me know if anyone can help out. > > Thanks! > > -jason gessner > jason@multiply.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From jason at multiply.org Tue Sep 7 11:14:35 2004 From: jason at multiply.org (jason@multiply.org) Date: Tue Sep 7 11:14:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] (no subject) Message-ID: <1094573675.413dde6b7e189@manage.multiply.org> Sweet! Thanks! I live right off of Naperville & Lake (US20). Thanks, Jason. -jason gessner jason@multiply.org ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From Dooley.Michael at con-way.com Tue Sep 7 11:17:04 2004 From: Dooley.Michael at con-way.com (Dooley, Michael) Date: Tue Sep 7 11:17:16 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] (no subject) Message-ID: over by the ski hill/Mexican restaurant. you can only go south at that point because I believe an RV dealer is across the street. -----Original Message----- From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org [mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org] Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 11:15 AM To: 'Chicago.pm chatter' Subject: [Chicago-talk] (no subject) Sweet! Thanks! I live right off of Naperville & Lake (US20). Thanks, Jason. -jason gessner jason@multiply.org ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. _______________________________________________ Chicago-talk mailing list Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk From gdf at speakeasy.net Tue Sep 7 11:18:33 2004 From: gdf at speakeasy.net (Greg Fast) Date: Tue Sep 7 11:18:38 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Subversion is coolness In-Reply-To: <1147BD66-008A-11D9-8BB4-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> References: <1147BD66-008A-11D9-8BB4-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> <20040906032526.GB10482@petdance.com> <20040907044545.GA9129@panix.com> Message-ID: <200409071618.i87GIbNC030443@www.pm.org> On Mon, 6 Sep 2004 23:54:57 -0500, Andy Lester wrote: > > the light would be a lot less dim if the darned thing would actually > > *install* properly. > > > > dha, admits that he seems to be the only one with this problem > > You're on OSX? I can't get it to compile there, either, so I've > installed binaries. Getting up and running with the client is pretty easy, since you can (often) just grab binaries. The server is more painful, especially if you go the "preferred" route of embedding it in apache2... We should have someone (Leland? Myself?) give a talk on SVK, and then svn really will be the Coolest Thing Ever. -- Greg Fast http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/ From jason at multiply.org Tue Sep 7 11:20:28 2004 From: jason at multiply.org (jason@multiply.org) Date: Tue Sep 7 11:20:39 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1094574028.413ddfccd86f4@manage.multiply.org> and don't forget the scary country bar! Quoting "Dooley, Michael" : > over by the ski hill/Mexican restaurant. > > you can only go south at that point because I believe an RV dealer is > across the street. > > -----Original Message----- > From: chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org > [mailto:chicago-talk-bounces@mail.pm.org] > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 11:15 AM > To: 'Chicago.pm chatter' > Subject: [Chicago-talk] (no subject) > > > Sweet! Thanks! > > I live right off of Naperville & Lake (US20). > > Thanks, Jason. > > -jason gessner > jason@multiply.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From jt at plainblack.com Tue Sep 7 11:33:58 2004 From: jt at plainblack.com (JT Smith) Date: Tue Sep 7 11:31:29 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Subversion is coolness In-Reply-To: <200409071618.i87GIbNC030443@www.pm.org> Message-ID: >Getting up and running with the client is pretty easy, since you can (often) >just grab binaries. The server is more painful, especially if you go >the "preferred" route of embedding it in apache2... > >We should have someone (Leland? Myself?) give a talk on SVK, and then >svn really will be the Coolest Thing Ever. Greg, Have you been able to make it through an upgrade without destroying the repository yet? I know that was a problem for a while. JT ~ Plain Black Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave. From gdf at speakeasy.net Tue Sep 7 11:58:14 2004 From: gdf at speakeasy.net (Greg Fast) Date: Tue Sep 7 11:58:17 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Subversion is coolness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200409071658.i87GwFHr030758@www.pm.org> On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 11:33:58 -0500, JT Smith wrote: > Have you been able to make it through an upgrade without destroying > the repository yet? I know that was a problem for a while. I started using v0.20 pretty regularly, and then decided to upgrade the server to 0.23 (which was current at the time) when I discovered they'd changed the line protocol and my 0.23 clients couldn't talk to the server. Migrating the repository completely hosed it, and then I wasn't even able to revert back to my backup copy, even with the original 0.20 server. At this point I threw up my hands. Now, admittedly, they made no bones about marking this as alpha software, and I imagine the revert thing was something stupid on my part. I haven't set up a serious server since they went 1.0, and thus haven't upgraded one post-1.0 either. -- Greg Fast http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/ From easyasy2k at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 13:01:10 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Tue Sep 7 13:01:18 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Subversion is coolness In-Reply-To: <200409071618.i87GIbNC030443@www.pm.org> References: <20040906032526.GB10482@petdance.com> <20040907044545.GA9129@panix.com> <1147BD66-008A-11D9-8BB4-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> <200409071618.i87GIbNC030443@www.pm.org> Message-ID: <2df270ef040907110161d1f97c@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 11:18:33 -0500, Greg Fast wrote: > On Mon, 6 Sep 2004 23:54:57 -0500, Andy Lester wrote: > > > the light would be a lot less dim if the darned thing would actually > > > *install* properly. > > > > > > dha, admits that he seems to be the only one with this problem > > > > You're on OSX? I can't get it to compile there, either, so I've > > installed binaries. > > Getting up and running with the client is pretty easy, since you can (often) > just grab binaries. The server is more painful, especially if you go > the "preferred" route of embedding it in apache2... > > We should have someone (Leland? Myself?) give a talk on SVK, and then > svn really will be the Coolest Thing Ever. I'm certainly not familiar enough with svk to do that. And anyways, installing svk is even harder than installing svn. I think CPAN.pm ended up dying on me becuase of circular dependences. SVK is really neat though. One central repository with (optional?) partial mirrors of of the repositories of everything you're working on. No CVS or .svn directories. Every operation can be done offline (though offline commits usually lead to ugly n-way merges). Subversion will be much nicer after 1.1 is released - no more Berkley DB. If anyone want to glance at slides, there are some nice ones at http://wagner.elixus.org/~clkao/svk-intro/ -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From dha at panix.com Tue Sep 7 13:16:17 2004 From: dha at panix.com (David H. Adler) Date: Tue Sep 7 13:16:20 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Subversion is coolness In-Reply-To: <3842466F40D4660B1F385AD6@duke.wrkhors.com> References: <20040906032526.GB10482@petdance.com> <20040907044545.GA9129@panix.com> <3842466F40D4660B1F385AD6@duke.wrkhors.com> Message-ID: <20040907181617.GA11046@panix.com> On Tue, Sep 07, 2004 at 10:24:00AM -0400, Steven Lembark wrote: > > >the light would be a lot less dim if the darned thing would actually > >*install* properly. > > > >dha, admits that he seems to be the only one with this problem > > Installing on what platform? Which source (e.g., rpm, tarball)? > I've used both 1.0.6 from SuSE-9.1 and the tarball, both seemed > happy enough even with '-O3 -march=pentium3'. I'd updated my DB > release to the current one first, which may have helped. As Andy observed, OS X. Tarball. I seem to have managed to install it, kinda. Can't get the perl bindings to work to save my life, though. dha -- David H. Adler - - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ "Soup on all fours?" "Of course. Whaddaya think, Soup is a biped?" - mst3k From andy at petdance.com Tue Sep 7 14:50:53 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Tue Sep 7 14:50:56 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Tonight's meeting Message-ID: <20040907195053.GB8092@petdance.com> Tonight's Perl Monster Garage will be a first-time experiment in Perl Kwalitee. Chicago.PM has adopted HTML::Tree as our module as part of the Phalanx project. At tonight's meeting, we'll be adding tests, checking documentatation, and generally cleaning up HTML::Tree. HTML::Tree has been around for a while, but could use some more tests to improve its coverage. (For more about Phalanx, go to qa.perl.org/phalanx and phalanx.kwiki.org) Our plan is this: 1) Run coverage statistics on HTML::Tree using the Devel::Cover module. This will tell us which parts of the module are not getting tested by the test suite. 2) Identify the biggest gaps in coverage. 3) Write new tests to exercise those parts of the code. 4) Keep an eye out for places where docs need improving. One of the key elements in writing tests and going over a module is that code and documentation and tests must all be in agreement. Tests that test something different than the documentation explains indicates a problem, for example. We'll be doing this live, interactively, on the big screen. I'll be running the keyboard, but the meeting as a group will be working together. Consider it "group programming," analogous to pair programming in Extreme Programming. Maybe it's XXP! At the end of the night, we should have changes that we can send back to Sean Burke for inclusion in the module distribution. However, if we need to do more than what we can get done tonight, we'll identify those areas and divvy up tasks among the members. I'd like to have someone act as a recorder of what happens, so that we can report our experiences to other Perl Monger groups who want to do this, too. What worked, what didn't, etc. If you bring a laptop, you'll be able to use the network to pull down the code (or download HTML::Tree v3.18 yourself beforehand). It may turn out that we break into smaller groups to work, depending on how many laptops people bring. We'll also be hanging out in IRC on the irc.perl.org server in the #perl-qa channel. Sean Burke (TorgoX) will be joining us, and others may help along the way. I don't know exactly how things will go, except that we'll have fun doing it and learn a lot along the way. -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From gdf at speakeasy.net Tue Sep 7 15:00:26 2004 From: gdf at speakeasy.net (Greg Fast) Date: Tue Sep 7 15:00:30 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] perl pretty-printing tools? Message-ID: <200409072000.i87K0TxY000526@www.pm.org> I'm looking around (again) for tools to pretty-print perl code (but not necessarily to a printer). In Andy's "get a job" talk, I believe he suggested printing from BBEdit or another syntax-highlighting editor. I'm also aware of enscript, though I don't know if that does more than black-and-white highlighting. Does anyone have any favorites? How about a perl-to-html tool that does syntax coloring/hilighting? The wiki running poe.perl.org has one, but I haven't discovered what it is. -- Greg Fast http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/ From thomasoniii at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 15:19:35 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Tue Sep 7 15:19:37 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] perl pretty-printing tools? In-Reply-To: <200409072000.i87K0TxY000526@www.pm.org> References: <200409072000.i87K0TxY000526@www.pm.org> Message-ID: <5cfdfaf704090713191d2c59b@mail.gmail.com> I once wrote a program that would take arbitrary text (such as program code) and a photograph and format the text into a colorized rendering of the photo. Would that be of any help? I can dig it out. The output was pretty. I had a photo of me rendered in the source to Mail::Bulkmail tacked up in my cube a few jobs back. I thought it was very post-modern. -Jim.... On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 15:00:26 -0500, Greg Fast wrote: > I'm looking around (again) for tools to pretty-print perl code (but > not necessarily to a printer). In Andy's "get a job" talk, I believe > he suggested printing from BBEdit or another syntax-highlighting > editor. I'm also aware of enscript, though I don't know if that does > more than black-and-white highlighting. > > Does anyone have any favorites? How about a perl-to-html tool that > does syntax coloring/hilighting? The wiki running poe.perl.org has > one, but I haven't discovered what it is. > > -- > Greg Fast > http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/ > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From thomasoniii at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 15:22:15 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Tue Sep 7 15:22:20 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] perl pretty-printing tools? In-Reply-To: <200409072000.i87K0TxY000526@www.pm.org> References: <200409072000.i87K0TxY000526@www.pm.org> Message-ID: <5cfdfaf704090713225bc432b5@mail.gmail.com> Ooh! It was easier to find than I'd feared. I remembered I'd posted it to perlmonks long ago. http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=35169 Requires ppm format images. There's at least one other post on there from someone else that had divised a similar program, for a similar reason. -Jim.... On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 15:00:26 -0500, Greg Fast wrote: > I'm looking around (again) for tools to pretty-print perl code (but > not necessarily to a printer). In Andy's "get a job" talk, I believe > he suggested printing from BBEdit or another syntax-highlighting > editor. I'm also aware of enscript, though I don't know if that does > more than black-and-white highlighting. > > Does anyone have any favorites? How about a perl-to-html tool that > does syntax coloring/hilighting? The wiki running poe.perl.org has > one, but I haven't discovered what it is. > > -- > Greg Fast > http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/ > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From pbaker at where2getit.com Tue Sep 7 15:24:41 2004 From: pbaker at where2getit.com (Paul Baker) Date: Tue Sep 7 15:24:50 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] perl pretty-printing tools? In-Reply-To: <200409072000.i87K0TxY000526@www.pm.org> References: <200409072000.i87K0TxY000526@www.pm.org> Message-ID: On Sep 7, 2004, at 3:00 PM, Greg Fast wrote: > Does anyone have any favorites? How about a perl-to-html tool that > does syntax coloring/hilighting? The wiki running poe.perl.org has > one, but I haven't discovered what it is. Trac [1] uses SilverCity [2] to do syntax-highlighting inside of the wiki and subversion browser. I haven't looked closely enough at SilverCity, but maybe it will go straight to HTML. [1] http://projects.edgewall.com/trac/wiki/TracSyntaxColoring [2] http://silvercity.sourceforge.net/ -- Paul Baker "Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom?? -- Thomas Jefferson in a letter to John Adams GPG Key: http://homepage.mac.com/pauljbaker/public.asc From gdf at speakeasy.net Tue Sep 7 15:31:28 2004 From: gdf at speakeasy.net (Greg Fast) Date: Tue Sep 7 15:31:31 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] perl pretty-printing tools? In-Reply-To: <5cfdfaf704090713191d2c59b@mail.gmail.com> References: <5cfdfaf704090713191d2c59b@mail.gmail.com> <200409072000.i87K0TxY000526@www.pm.org> Message-ID: <200409072031.i87KVTUi000901@www.pm.org> On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 15:19:35 -0500, Jim Thomason wrote: > I once wrote a program that would take arbitrary text (such as program > code) and a photograph and format the text into a colorized rendering > of the photo. > > Would that be of any help? I can dig it out. The output was pretty. > > I had a photo of me rendered in the source to Mail::Bulkmail tacked up > in my cube a few jobs back. I thought it was very post-modern. Not... quite what I'm looking for. You can already tell too much about me from looking at my code. :) -- Greg Fast http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/ From jason at multiply.org Tue Sep 7 15:35:13 2004 From: jason at multiply.org (jason@multiply.org) Date: Tue Sep 7 15:35:24 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] perl pretty-printing tools? In-Reply-To: <200409072000.i87K0TxY000526@www.pm.org> References: <200409072000.i87K0TxY000526@www.pm.org> Message-ID: <1094589313.413e1b8182fb8@manage.multiply.org> i use GVIM's convert to HTML menu. It is good. -jason gessner jason@multiply.org Quoting Greg Fast : > I'm looking around (again) for tools to pretty-print perl code (but > not necessarily to a printer). In Andy's "get a job" talk, I believe > he suggested printing from BBEdit or another syntax-highlighting > editor. I'm also aware of enscript, though I don't know if that does > more than black-and-white highlighting. > > Does anyone have any favorites? How about a perl-to-html tool that > does syntax coloring/hilighting? The wiki running poe.perl.org has > one, but I haven't discovered what it is. > > -- > Greg Fast > http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/ > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From ehs at pobox.com Tue Sep 7 15:47:43 2004 From: ehs at pobox.com (Ed Summers) Date: Tue Sep 7 15:47:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] I've got a place!!! Message-ID: <20040907204743.GA25363@chloe.inkdroid.org> Eric wrote: > Well, Brian Fitzpatrick gave me a lead on who to speak to at the Apple > Store on N. Michigan Ave about using their theatre. I've dropped the > an email to see about using that space... Oh man, that would be sweet: http://www.apple.com/retail/northmichiganavenue/gallery1.html //Ed From lembark at wrkhors.com Tue Sep 7 16:26:59 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Tue Sep 7 16:27:22 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] perl pretty-printing tools? In-Reply-To: <200409072000.i87K0TxY000526@www.pm.org> References: <200409072000.i87K0TxY000526@www.pm.org> Message-ID: -- Greg Fast > I'm looking around (again) for tools to pretty-print perl code (but > not necessarily to a printer). In Andy's "get a job" talk, I believe > he suggested printing from BBEdit or another syntax-highlighting > editor. I'm also aware of enscript, though I don't know if that does > more than black-and-white highlighting. > > Does anyone have any favorites? How about a perl-to-html tool that > does syntax coloring/hilighting? The wiki running poe.perl.org has > one, but I haven't discovered what it is. Everything I've seen has glitches, mainly because the syntax for Perl is flexable enough to confuse anything but the perl compiler! -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From andy at petdance.com Tue Sep 7 16:43:04 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Tue Sep 7 16:43:06 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] El Famous Dinnero Message-ID: <20040907214304.GA8428@petdance.com> I'll be at El Famous Burrito for our final pre-meeting EFB, 6:00ish. xoox, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From lembark at wrkhors.com Tue Sep 7 16:47:29 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Tue Sep 7 16:47:52 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] More than just S&M in perl... Message-ID: <74F7AD0926F98D4E431D60F7@duke.wrkhors.com> You can now be much more strict as well. Or should I start in with NEXT:: of kin jokes instead? In any case: 5.8.5 came out with Symbol in the standard package. Rather minimalist interface and doc's make it harder to use, but it's worth getting into. Main use is allowing you to generate globs on the fly without resorting to no strict refs. For example, I just used it to purge the last unstricts from NEXT::init. For example: my $ISA = *{qualify_to_ref 'ISA', $caller}{ARRAY}; my $init = qualify_to_ref 'init', $caller; my $meta = qualify_to_ref 'meta', $caller; unshift @$ISA, __PACKAGE__; *$meta = $ref; *$meta = sub { $ref }; *$init = $sub; This is also useful for probing a caller's namespace for variables. Somewhat contrived example, but if you don't know whether the caller has a hash or an array in it for some variable you could use: sub blessed_isa { my $obj = shift; my $name = shift; my $pkg = ref $obj || $obj; my $glob = qualify_to_ref $name, $pkg; my @found = ''; defined *$glob{$_} && push @found, $_ for qw(HASH ARRAY CODE); @found } Checking for $glob{CODE} is useful for looking up methods defined in the class (vs. inherited as with $item->can). Or, say you want to pass the type of data required into a constructor only if the data doesn't already exist: my $item = shift; my $type = uc shift; my $pkg = ref $item || $item; my $glob = qualify_to_ref $name, $pkg; *$glob = $type eq 'HASH' ? {} : [] unless defined *$glob{$type}; Nice thing is that you can do all of this now without resorting to no strict 'refs'. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: NEXT-init-1.00.tar.gz Type: application/x-gunzip Size: 6961 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20040907/31ecea16/NEXT-init-1.00.tar-0001.bin From jimkrok at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 17:16:21 2004 From: jimkrok at gmail.com (Jim Krok) Date: Tue Sep 7 17:16:44 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] perl pretty-printing tools? In-Reply-To: References: <200409072000.i87K0TxY000526@www.pm.org> Message-ID: <16766e42040907151628650ad0@mail.gmail.com> You might want to take a look at Code2HTML. It's able to prettify perl code and a few other languages as well. I've used this a few times when printing code to show during an interview. I've got a few "woo, that's nice" comments before with it too... "Code2HTML converts a program source code to syntax highlighted HTML" http://www.palfrader.org/code2html/ --jim From andy at petdance.com Tue Sep 7 17:27:19 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Tue Sep 7 17:27:21 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Addendum: I won't be at EFB Message-ID: <20040907222719.GA8571@petdance.com> No EFB for me tonight. Sorry if you were expecting it. See ya at WDI! xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From easyasy2k at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 11:36:58 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Wed Sep 8 11:37:02 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] perl pretty-printing tools? In-Reply-To: <200409072000.i87K0TxY000526@www.pm.org> References: <200409072000.i87K0TxY000526@www.pm.org> Message-ID: <2df270ef0409080936763a6d44@mail.gmail.com> I use VIM for syntax highlighting when I have to print something out. If you popup the perl-syntax help-page (":help perl-syntax" in normal mode) it has a few options to make the syntax highlighting more accurate and highlight pod. Other than that, there's not much you can do to make it work any better, at least in vim. On a similar note, I use perltidy from CPAN to make all my files uniform when I'm editing them. It makes tab-stops, bracket & parenthesis syntax all the same. I've only used it once on my code, when I wanted the project I started learning perl with to actually look reasonable, after not knowing how to make perl look nice and screwing with tab-stops in VIM. On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 15:00:26 -0500, Greg Fast wrote: > I'm looking around (again) for tools to pretty-print perl code (but > not necessarily to a printer). In Andy's "get a job" talk, I believe > he suggested printing from BBEdit or another syntax-highlighting > editor. I'm also aware of enscript, though I don't know if that does > more than black-and-white highlighting. > > Does anyone have any favorites? How about a perl-to-html tool that > does syntax coloring/hilighting? The wiki running poe.perl.org has > one, but I haven't discovered what it is. > > -- > Greg Fast > http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/ > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From gdf at speakeasy.net Wed Sep 8 14:06:33 2004 From: gdf at speakeasy.net (Greg Fast) Date: Wed Sep 8 14:06:37 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] perl pretty-printing tools? In-Reply-To: <2df270ef0409080936763a6d44@mail.gmail.com> References: <2df270ef0409080936763a6d44@mail.gmail.com> <200409072000.i87K0TxY000526@www.pm.org> Message-ID: <200409081906.i88J6Ys0011498@www.pm.org> On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:36:58 -0500, Leland Johnson wrote: > On a similar note, I use perltidy from CPAN to make all my files > uniform when I'm editing them. It makes tab-stops, bracket & > parenthesis syntax all the same. I've only used it once on my code, > when I wanted the project I started learning perl with to actually > look reasonable, after not knowing how to make perl look nice and > screwing with tab-stops in VIM. I think perltidy is pretty close to what I'm looking for, especially since it's just a perl module (maybe we should phalanx him into putting it up on CPAN). I'm going to try writing a blosxom (http://blosxom.com) plugin to autoformat perl, which this should work nicely for. I'm not really interested in the tidy part of it right now, just the html generation part of it. -- Greg Fast http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/ From komtanoo at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 15:57:30 2004 From: komtanoo at gmail.com (Komtanoo Pinpimai) Date: Wed Sep 8 15:57:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Hello Chicago.pm's people (I''ve just join the group) Message-ID: <94e5774904090813577dd1872a@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I have just arrived in Chicago for 3 weeks(I'm from Thailand) for a master degree in computer science. I'd used perl to compelete my daily tasks 2-3 years ago, but now I'm starting to learn c++ and forget most of Perl's systax but still understand its paradigm. Well, I'm waiting for perl6 on parrot, I've read some of their spec. and felt excited with the awesome improvements. My experiences of perl are in module creation and OO perl, networking, socket and lwp, 5.00503thread and ithread, a lot of modules, to name as much I can remember, Ah.... I've successfully done 2 or 3 projects with pair programming along with friends and colleagues, I can help you debug programs. :) I own a gentoo box where I do some programming stuff and a windows2000 laptop. The uname -a of my gentoo shows: Linux wongwai 2.4.20-gentoo-r7 #3 Mon Aug 23 21:01:46 ICT 2004 i686 Pentium III (Coppermine) GenuineIntel GNU/Linux and perl -v shows: This is perl, v5.8.5 built for i686-linux-thread-multi bla bla bla... What am I impressed in this pm group is not only do people ask questions and answer or establish meetings but also involve in some programming projects, like, HTML::Tree or the palanx, (I still have no idea what they are..). thanks for letting me introduce myself... -Kem. From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Wed Sep 8 18:16:07 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (Jon Amundsen) Date: Wed Sep 8 18:16:12 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Xtreme Programming Group In-Reply-To: References: <200409072000.i87K0TxY000526@www.pm.org> Message-ID: <20040908231607.GC3038@utility> Hi All, I mentioned last night that I would send this out, so here goes. I thought I'd throw in a buzzword or two in the subject for good measure. I think there is enough interest in getting some Chicago Perl Mongers together for some group coding to make a run at a date/time. I'm thinking Saturday the 18th @ one of the many local Panera Bread locations that has free WiFi(http://www.panerabread.com/wifi.aspx). I'm partial to the one in Evanston, but could be persuaded to go somewhere else if some people commit to showing up. I'd like to continue the efforts from our last meeting on the phalanx project, and our adopted module HTML::TreeBuilder. Other suggestions are welcome. You don't need a laptop, but it would be nice if we get a few people with them. I have at least 1 extra wireless card that someone could borrow if they don't have one. So... The floor is open. Let the discussion begin. -- Jon Amundsen jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. -- Mahatma Gandhi -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20040908/617c8810/attachment.bin From easyasy2k at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 23:53:40 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Wed Sep 8 23:53:47 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] perl pretty-printing tools? In-Reply-To: <200409081906.i88J6Ys0011498@www.pm.org> References: <200409072000.i87K0TxY000526@www.pm.org> <2df270ef0409080936763a6d44@mail.gmail.com> <200409081906.i88J6Ys0011498@www.pm.org> Message-ID: <2df270ef040908215366c18211@mail.gmail.com> Wow, perltidy has HTML output? I guess it does. I should really read _all_ of the pod next time I start using something. Make sure to keep me up to date on the status of the bloxsom plugin. I'd like to help to. I run a bloxsom blog, and I would like something other than just textile to format my posts. On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 14:06:33 -0500, Greg Fast wrote: > On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:36:58 -0500, Leland Johnson wrote: > > On a similar note, I use perltidy from CPAN to make all my files > > uniform when I'm editing them. It makes tab-stops, bracket & > > parenthesis syntax all the same. I've only used it once on my code, > > when I wanted the project I started learning perl with to actually > > look reasonable, after not knowing how to make perl look nice and > > screwing with tab-stops in VIM. > > I think perltidy is pretty close to what I'm looking for, especially > since it's just a perl module (maybe we should phalanx him into > putting it up on CPAN). I'm going to try writing a blosxom > (http://blosxom.com) plugin to autoformat perl, which this should work > nicely for. > > I'm not really interested in the tidy part of it right now, just the > html generation part of it. > > > > -- > Greg Fast > http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/ > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From easyasy2k at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 23:58:08 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Wed Sep 8 23:58:11 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Xtreme Programming Group In-Reply-To: <20040908231607.GC3038@utility> References: <200409072000.i87K0TxY000526@www.pm.org> <20040908231607.GC3038@utility> Message-ID: <2df270ef04090821581edc0994@mail.gmail.com> I'd be up for it where ever it is based. Actually coming just depends on how much homework I have though. On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 18:16:07 -0500, Jon Amundsen wrote: > Hi All, > > I mentioned last night that I would send this out, so here goes. I thought I'd throw in a buzzword or two in the subject for good measure. > > I think there is enough interest in getting some Chicago Perl Mongers together for some group coding to make a run at a date/time. I'm thinking Saturday the 18th @ one of the many local Panera Bread locations that has free WiFi(http://www.panerabread.com/wifi.aspx). I'm partial to the one in Evanston, but could be persuaded to go somewhere else if some people commit to showing up. > > I'd like to continue the efforts from our last meeting on the phalanx project, and our adopted module HTML::TreeBuilder. Other suggestions are welcome. You don't need a laptop, but it would be nice if we get a few people with them. I have at least 1 extra wireless card that someone could borrow if they don't have one. > > So... The floor is open. Let the discussion begin. > > -- > > Jon Amundsen > jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org > > A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a > "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. > -- Mahatma Gandhi > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From lembark at wrkhors.com Thu Sep 9 07:39:41 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Thu Sep 9 07:40:05 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] perl pretty-printing tools? In-Reply-To: <2df270ef0409080936763a6d44@mail.gmail.com> References: <200409072000.i87K0TxY000526@www.pm.org> <2df270ef0409080936763a6d44@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: -- Leland Johnson > I use VIM for syntax highlighting when I have to print something out. > If you popup the perl-syntax help-page (":help perl-syntax" in normal > mode) it has a few options to make the syntax highlighting more > accurate and highlight pod. Other than that, there's not much you can > do to make it work any better, at least in vim. VILE's perl syntax hiliter works reasonsbly well. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From andy at petdance.com Thu Sep 9 08:43:10 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Thu Sep 9 08:43:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Xtreme Programming Group In-Reply-To: <2df270ef04090821581edc0994@mail.gmail.com> References: <200409072000.i87K0TxY000526@www.pm.org> <20040908231607.GC3038@utility> <2df270ef04090821581edc0994@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3070FFF6-0266-11D9-A72E-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> >> I think there is enough interest in getting some Chicago Perl Mongers >> together for some group coding to make a run at a date/time. I'm >> thinking Saturday the 18th @ one of the many local Panera Bread >> locations that has free WiFi(http://www.panerabread.com/wifi.aspx). >> I'm partial to the one in Evanston, but could be persuaded to go >> somewhere else if some people commit to showing up. Chances are I couldn't show up, but would probably be able to participate online somehow, either in IRC or AIM. xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Thu Sep 9 08:59:23 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org) Date: Thu Sep 9 08:59:24 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Xtreme Programming Group In-Reply-To: <3070FFF6-0266-11D9-A72E-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> References: <200409072000.i87K0TxY000526@www.pm.org> <20040908231607.GC3038@utility> <2df270ef04090821581edc0994@mail.gmail.com> <3070FFF6-0266-11D9-A72E-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> Message-ID: <41346.12.119.251.194.1094738363.squirrel@12.119.251.194> >>> I think there is enough interest in getting some Chicago Perl Mongers >>> together for some group coding to make a run at a date/time. I'm >>> thinking Saturday the 18th @ one of the many local Panera Bread >>> locations that has free WiFi(http://www.panerabread.com/wifi.aspx). >>> I'm partial to the one in Evanston, but could be persuaded to go >>> somewhere else if some people commit to showing up. > > Chances are I couldn't show up, but would probably be able to > participate online somehow, either in IRC or AIM. > > xoxo, > Andy > > -- > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > Feel free to suggest alternate date/time/locations! Jon From andy at petdance.com Thu Sep 9 09:32:02 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Thu Sep 9 09:32:04 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Xtreme Programming Group In-Reply-To: <41346.12.119.251.194.1094738363.squirrel@12.119.251.194> References: <200409072000.i87K0TxY000526@www.pm.org> <20040908231607.GC3038@utility> <2df270ef04090821581edc0994@mail.gmail.com> <3070FFF6-0266-11D9-A72E-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> <41346.12.119.251.194.1094738363.squirrel@12.119.251.194> Message-ID: <20040909143202.GB15307@petdance.com> On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 08:59:23AM -0500, jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org (jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org) wrote: > Feel free to suggest alternate date/time/locations! Oh no, I mean in general there's no way I'm gonna be able to haul myself over to Evanston on a weekend, away from the girls. Don't let me be the problem on this one. :-) If you do get things going, let me know everyone's auth.perl.org IDs so I can get you set up in the svn server. xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From thomasoniii at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 15:40:04 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Thu Sep 9 15:40:12 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] What should I use to make PDFs? Message-ID: <5cfdfaf704090913407980e9c8@mail.gmail.com> Does anybody have a favorite PDF creation module? I'd need something that can: 1) allow me to change fonts, or (at a minimum) insert images. Changing fonts is preferrable. 2) allow me to rotate fonts on the page. 3) allow me to add new pages to my pdf document. 4) scale to -big- documents (at least several hundred pages, but the amount of text per page is reasonably sparse). Anything out there to do this easily? -Jim.... From onefix at waste.org Thu Sep 9 15:49:30 2004 From: onefix at waste.org (ogden nefix) Date: Thu Sep 9 15:49:18 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] What should I use to make PDFs? In-Reply-To: <5cfdfaf704090913407980e9c8@mail.gmail.com> References: <5cfdfaf704090913407980e9c8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4140C1DA.6010306@waste.org> Jim Thomason wrote: > Does anybody have a favorite PDF creation module? > I have used PDF::API2 which works fine and can use different fonts and you can set new pages whenever you wish. http://pdfapi2.sourceforge.net/ Ogden From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 15:49:30 2004 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Thu Sep 9 15:49:31 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] I've got a place!!! In-Reply-To: <4B683B97-0032-11D9-AABE-000A956859A6@pobox.com> References: <20040906180812.GA16931@chloe.inkdroid.org> <4B683B97-0032-11D9-AABE-000A956859A6@pobox.com> Message-ID: <3096c19d040909134969e6d092@mail.gmail.com> Hey Eric, I stole your idea, and tried to adapt it for the Chicago Python User Group: http://www.lonelylion.com/pipermail/chipy/2004-September/000361.html It was sort of, "wow, that's a great idea." Then I just dialed the number, and was surprised to find out how quickly I got a hold of the theater guy's voice mail. I left him a message yesterday, but haven't recieved a reply. Would you folks be interested in trying to write them a joint Python / Perl letter or email, pointing out how heavily the two P communities are "into" Apple, and how appreciative we would be if they gave us space to have our meetings? Feel free to tell me to stick it, obviously I feel a little guilty stealing your idea. I promise to buy you a beer (or beverage of your choice) and sneak it into the Apple store for our first meeting. Don't forget to think different. As a side note, my voicemail message was sort of rambling. I think I may have mentioned the fact that I own an iPod. Chris On Mon, 6 Sep 2004 13:26:39 -0500, Eric Sinclair wrote: > > On Sep 6, 2004, at 1:08 PM, Ed Summers wrote: > > > On Mon, Sep 06, 2004 at 02:02:39PM -0400, petemar1 wrote: > >> Whatever happened to the Loop? > > > > I was in Chicago on Friday and it was still there. Seriously though, > > do you have a location in the loop where we could meet and do > > presentations? > > Well, Brian Fitzpatrick gave me a lead on who to speak to at the Apple > Store on N. Michigan Ave about using their theatre. I've dropped the > an email to see about using that space... > > -Eric > > -- > esinclai@pobox.com aim: esinclai > http://www.kittyjoyce.com/eric/log/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- Chris From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov Thu Sep 9 16:16:47 2004 From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov) Date: Thu Sep 9 16:16:52 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] What should I use to make PDFs? In-Reply-To: <5cfdfaf704090913407980e9c8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dunno about the scalability, but we've used htmldoc: http://www.easysw.com/htmldoc/ html to pdf, nice, fast and effective. a Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler Internet: andy_bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov VOICE: (608) 261-5738 FAX 264-5932 "Whereof we cannot speak, thereof we should remain silent." L. Wittgenstein From m.krebs at comcast.net Thu Sep 9 16:22:34 2004 From: m.krebs at comcast.net (m.krebs@comcast.net) Date: Thu Sep 9 16:22:38 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Possible Meeting Location Message-ID: <090920042122.21589.4140C99A000756D00000545522007456729C0D0A9D05D203@comcast.net> Hello all, I have a possible location to meet, the company I am working for is call Aon, we have a facility in Glenview (1000 N. Milwakee ave.about 30 minutes south of the current Vernon Hills location) that have training rooms avaiable and I have gotten the ok for us to use them at no charge. The only catch is to get into the building you will need to get past security, I will need a listing of all possible attendees. I will give this list to the security group and as you come into the building you will need to provide a picture ID and sign in and out. If you guys can live with that we have a place to meet. Fred Krebs -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20040909/0eed351f/attachment.htm From jason at multiply.org Thu Sep 9 16:40:38 2004 From: jason at multiply.org (jason@multiply.org) Date: Thu Sep 9 16:40:49 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] What should I use to make PDFs? In-Reply-To: <4140C1DA.6010306@waste.org> References: <5cfdfaf704090913407980e9c8@mail.gmail.com> <4140C1DA.6010306@waste.org> Message-ID: <1094766038.4140cdd61ee18@manage.multiply.org> I will second a vote for PDF::API2 which will handle font embedding, existing PDF manipulation and graphics very nicely. The docs are not distributed with the distro in CPAN though, so you will have to go looking for them. For a commercial library you can use libPDF from a german company, but it is 1400 bucks. Great software, though. -jason gessner jason@multiply.org Quoting ogden nefix : > > Jim Thomason wrote: > > Does anybody have a favorite PDF creation module? > > > > I have used PDF::API2 which works fine and can use different fonts and > you can set new pages whenever you wish. > > http://pdfapi2.sourceforge.net/ > > Ogden > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From lembark at wrkhors.com Thu Sep 9 16:54:34 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Thu Sep 9 16:54:58 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] What should I use to make PDFs? In-Reply-To: <5cfdfaf704090913407980e9c8@mail.gmail.com> References: <5cfdfaf704090913407980e9c8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: -- Jim Thomason > Does anybody have a favorite PDF creation module? > > I'd need something that can: > > 1) allow me to change fonts, or (at a minimum) insert images. Changing > fonts is preferrable. > 2) allow me to rotate fonts on the page. > 3) allow me to add new pages to my pdf document. > 4) scale to -big- documents (at least several hundred pages, but the > amount of text per page is reasonably sparse). > > Anything out there to do this easily? ps2pdf w/ whatever you like to generate the ps. html2ps + ps2pdf w/ source in html. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From gdf at speakeasy.net Thu Sep 9 17:03:43 2004 From: gdf at speakeasy.net (Greg Fast) Date: Thu Sep 9 17:03:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] What should I use to make PDFs? In-Reply-To: References: <5cfdfaf704090913407980e9c8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200409092203.i89M3ifv002157@www.pm.org> On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 17:54:34 -0400, Steven Lembark wrote: > -- Jim Thomason > > > Does anybody have a favorite PDF creation module? > [...] > ps2pdf w/ whatever you like to generate the ps. If you go this route, PostScript::Simple is lots of fun. -- Greg Fast http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/ From easyasy2k at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 17:47:07 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Thu Sep 9 17:47:15 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] I've got a place!!! In-Reply-To: <3096c19d040909134969e6d092@mail.gmail.com> References: <20040906180812.GA16931@chloe.inkdroid.org> <4B683B97-0032-11D9-AABE-000A956859A6@pobox.com> <3096c19d040909134969e6d092@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2df270ef04090915475a64eadb@mail.gmail.com> I would be. I have wanted to learn Python for a while (great alternative to be learning while I'm forced to learn java), and I have a powerbook. The real question of course is how many meetings we would have. There's really only so much perl and python people can talk about while under the glare of the apple store. At the Perl Mongers meeting yesterday, it was brought up that the apple store wouldn't like non-apple computers there, so we would be alienating a bunch of users in both groups. Any website for your usergroup? On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:49:30 -0500, Chris McAvoy wrote: > Hey Eric, I stole your idea, and tried to adapt it for the Chicago > Python User Group: > > http://www.lonelylion.com/pipermail/chipy/2004-September/000361.html > > It was sort of, "wow, that's a great idea." Then I just dialed the > number, and was surprised to find out how quickly I got a hold of the > theater guy's voice mail. I left him a message yesterday, but haven't > recieved a reply. > > Would you folks be interested in trying to write them a joint Python / > Perl letter or email, pointing out how heavily the two P communities > are "into" Apple, and how appreciative we would be if they gave us > space to have our meetings? > > Feel free to tell me to stick it, obviously I feel a little guilty > stealing your idea. I promise to buy you a beer (or beverage of your > choice) and sneak it into the Apple store for our first meeting. > > Don't forget to think different. > > As a side note, my voicemail message was sort of rambling. I think I > may have mentioned the fact that I own an iPod. > > Chris > > > > > On Mon, 6 Sep 2004 13:26:39 -0500, Eric Sinclair wrote: > > > > On Sep 6, 2004, at 1:08 PM, Ed Summers wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Sep 06, 2004 at 02:02:39PM -0400, petemar1 wrote: > > >> Whatever happened to the Loop? > > > > > > I was in Chicago on Friday and it was still there. Seriously though, > > > do you have a location in the loop where we could meet and do > > > presentations? > > > > Well, Brian Fitzpatrick gave me a lead on who to speak to at the Apple > > Store on N. Michigan Ave about using their theatre. I've dropped the > > an email to see about using that space... > > > > -Eric > > > > -- > > esinclai@pobox.com aim: esinclai > > http://www.kittyjoyce.com/eric/log/ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > -- > Chris > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From easyasy2k at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 01:16:34 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Fri Sep 10 01:16:36 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Hello Chicago.pm's people (I''ve just join the group) In-Reply-To: <94e5774904090813577dd1872a@mail.gmail.com> References: <94e5774904090813577dd1872a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2df270ef0409092316138bcda4@mail.gmail.com> Good to hear your interested Kem. I joined this PM group 6(?) months ago, and I've been loving it. I've learned a lot, and with the Phalanx project, I get to contribute back to the perl community at large. I'm somewhat interested in Perl6 too. If you want to talk off-list, I'd be glad to. I also got to attend OSCON this year, so I got to go to some of the Perl6 presentations. If you want, you can check out my blog coverage of OSCON at http://protoplasmic.org/weblog.cgi/oscon It's pretty lacking on Perl6 coverage though. The Phalanx project is basically writing and importing tests for well used modules in CPAN. The Chicago PM group decided to adopt HTML::Tree, giving it this treatment as a group. Here's what's currently on tap: (you can edit the page and add what you want to do, but I would suggest contacting Andy Lester first at andy@petdance.com) http://phalanx.kwiki.org/index.cgi?ChicagoStatus And some general info on the Phalanx Project: http://qa.perl.org/phalanx/ http://phalanx.kwiki.org Also, a group is trying to get together to modify the module as a group, as we did at the last meeting: http://mail.pm.org/archives/chicago-talk/2004-September/001778.html The website hasn't been updated yet, but our next meeting (I think) is taking place at the Grayslake Library: http://mail.pm.org/archives/chicago-talk/2004-September/001730.html I hope to see you at the next meeting! -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From lembark at wrkhors.com Fri Sep 10 11:49:14 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Fri Sep 10 11:49:39 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] What should I use to make PDFs? In-Reply-To: <200409092203.i89M3ifv002157@www.pm.org> References: <5cfdfaf704090913407980e9c8@mail.gmail.com> <200409092203.i89M3ifv002157@www.pm.org> Message-ID: <6A67D7929513BE8976D23E45@duke.wrkhors.com> > If you go this route, PostScript::Simple is lots of fun. Handy for layout lines, borders, diagrams: For real ont control: If you really want control, flexability, fonts, layout, grids, etc, try TeX + dvi2ps or dvi2pdf. There are TeX packages for just about any sort of layout preference and the fonts are unlimited [if you're willing to roll your own :-]. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From onefix at waste.org Fri Sep 10 12:04:13 2004 From: onefix at waste.org (ogden nefix) Date: Fri Sep 10 12:04:00 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] What should I use to make PDFs? In-Reply-To: <6A67D7929513BE8976D23E45@duke.wrkhors.com> References: <5cfdfaf704090913407980e9c8@mail.gmail.com> <200409092203.i89M3ifv002157@www.pm.org> <6A67D7929513BE8976D23E45@duke.wrkhors.com> Message-ID: <4141DE8D.9010806@waste.org> Talking of PDF, maybe some one may know this answer. We generate PDFs using Perl, for a client which prints these PDFs onto a sheet with a fixed grid. The PDF fills in text on the sheets. However, each printer prints the PDF differently. It sometimes aligns; most times it doesn't. Has anyone else come across this problem and if so, what can be done, if anything? Thanks Ogden Steven Lembark wrote: > >> If you go this route, PostScript::Simple is lots of fun. > > > > > Handy for layout lines, borders, diagrams: > > > > For real ont control: > > > > > > > > If you really want control, flexability, fonts, layout, grids, etc, > try TeX + dvi2ps or dvi2pdf. There are TeX packages for just about > any sort of layout preference and the fonts are unlimited [if you're > willing to roll your own :-]. > From lembark at wrkhors.com Fri Sep 10 13:50:06 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Fri Sep 10 13:50:31 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] What should I use to make PDFs? In-Reply-To: <4141DE8D.9010806@waste.org> References: <5cfdfaf704090913407980e9c8@mail.gmail.com> <200409092203.i89M3ifv002157@www.pm.org> <6A67D7929513BE8976D23E45@duke.wrkhors.com> <4141DE8D.9010806@waste.org> Message-ID: > Has anyone else come across this problem and if so, what can be done, if > anything? PDF is a display format, not a printing format. Like HTML it is intended to be device independent. You can control the font metrics, DPI, and paper size used for ps output in order to standardize the appearance on paper. The PS language is defined in terms of dots, so setting the appropriate scale should go a long way towards standardizing the output appearance. Q: Do all of the sites use identical pdf -> ps conversion utilities? -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From jason at multiply.org Fri Sep 10 14:21:28 2004 From: jason at multiply.org (jason@multiply.org) Date: Fri Sep 10 14:21:39 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] What should I use to make PDFs? In-Reply-To: References: <5cfdfaf704090913407980e9c8@mail.gmail.com> <200409092203.i89M3ifv002157@www.pm.org> <6A67D7929513BE8976D23E45@duke.wrkhors.com> <4141DE8D.9010806@waste.org> Message-ID: <1094844088.4141feb828a66@manage.multiply.org> > PDF is a display format, not a printing format. .... > -- > Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street > Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 > lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 actually, this couldn't be farther from the truth. PDF is an optimized version of PostScript. Nearly all print shops are moving to PDF (or being pushed) because it can embed fonts and all other necessary assets, can handle color management and profiling and can use a single source and format for everything from display on screen to offset printing. It is quickly becoming the print format of choice. Printing troubles with PDF files are a bit better than with normal postscript files, but in my experience, they are much happier on postscript printers. That and the fact that by default Acrobat Reader sizes your pages to fit on the printer page may be the source of your problem. -jason gessner jason@multiply.org ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 15:06:15 2004 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Fri Sep 10 15:06:21 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] I've got a place!!! In-Reply-To: <2df270ef04090915475a64eadb@mail.gmail.com> References: <20040906180812.GA16931@chloe.inkdroid.org> <4B683B97-0032-11D9-AABE-000A956859A6@pobox.com> <3096c19d040909134969e6d092@mail.gmail.com> <2df270ef04090915475a64eadb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3096c19d040910130671bcc962@mail.gmail.com> There is, http://www.chipy.org. I wasn't actually suggesting we combine the groups, just combine our efforts to enlighten the Apple folks about how great Open Source user groups are, how they bring businesses good luck, and always pick up after themselves. The Apple guy hasn't called back though. Maybe we could try writing the Apple corp? Chris On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:47:07 -0500, Leland Johnson wrote: > I would be. I have wanted to learn Python for a while (great > alternative to be learning while I'm forced to learn java), and I have > a powerbook. The real question of course is how many meetings we would > have. There's really only so much perl and python people can talk > about while under the glare of the apple store. > > At the Perl Mongers meeting yesterday, it was brought up that the > apple store wouldn't like non-apple computers there, so we would be > alienating a bunch of users in both groups. > > Any website for your usergroup? > > > > > On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:49:30 -0500, Chris McAvoy wrote: > > Hey Eric, I stole your idea, and tried to adapt it for the Chicago > > Python User Group: > > > > http://www.lonelylion.com/pipermail/chipy/2004-September/000361.html > > > > It was sort of, "wow, that's a great idea." Then I just dialed the > > number, and was surprised to find out how quickly I got a hold of the > > theater guy's voice mail. I left him a message yesterday, but haven't > > recieved a reply. > > > > Would you folks be interested in trying to write them a joint Python / > > Perl letter or email, pointing out how heavily the two P communities > > are "into" Apple, and how appreciative we would be if they gave us > > space to have our meetings? > > > > Feel free to tell me to stick it, obviously I feel a little guilty > > stealing your idea. I promise to buy you a beer (or beverage of your > > choice) and sneak it into the Apple store for our first meeting. > > > > Don't forget to think different. > > > > As a side note, my voicemail message was sort of rambling. I think I > > may have mentioned the fact that I own an iPod. > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 6 Sep 2004 13:26:39 -0500, Eric Sinclair wrote: > > > > > > On Sep 6, 2004, at 1:08 PM, Ed Summers wrote: > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 06, 2004 at 02:02:39PM -0400, petemar1 wrote: > > > >> Whatever happened to the Loop? > > > > > > > > I was in Chicago on Friday and it was still there. Seriously though, > > > > do you have a location in the loop where we could meet and do > > > > presentations? > > > > > > Well, Brian Fitzpatrick gave me a lead on who to speak to at the Apple > > > Store on N. Michigan Ave about using their theatre. I've dropped the > > > an email to see about using that space... > > > > > > -Eric > > > > > > -- > > > esinclai@pobox.com aim: esinclai > > > http://www.kittyjoyce.com/eric/log/ > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > > > -- > > Chris > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > -- > Leland Johnson > http://protoplasmic.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- Chris From lembark at wrkhors.com Fri Sep 10 15:33:44 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Fri Sep 10 15:34:08 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] What should I use to make PDFs? In-Reply-To: <1094844088.4141feb828a66@manage.multiply.org> References: <5cfdfaf704090913407980e9c8@mail.gmail.com> <200409092203.i89M3ifv002157@www.pm.org> <6A67D7929513BE8976D23E45@duke.wrkhors.com> <4141DE8D.9010806@waste.org> <1094844088.4141feb828a66@manage.multiply.org> Message-ID: <6B3D8259F94DF245ED4F3A61@duke.wrkhors.com> > actually, this couldn't be farther from the truth. PDF is an optimized > version of PostScript. Nearly all print shops are moving to PDF (or > being pushed) because it can embed fonts and all other necessary assets, > can handle color management and profiling and can use a single source and > format for everything from display on screen to offset printing. It is > quickly becoming the print format of choice. > Printing troubles with PDF files are a bit better than with normal > postscript files, but in my experience, they are much happier on > postscript printers. That and the fact that by default Acrobat Reader > sizes your pages to fit on the printer page may be the source of your > problem. Catch: PDF's to not embed metadata for every known printer into the original PDF. Postscript is also device-independent: if you print something on a dot-matrix or line printer it may not appear the same size as on a laserjet even with the same 'size' fonts. The postscript language and pdf data format are completely at the hardware's mercy in converting the underlying data to output. About the only way to get more-or-less uniform results is to convert the original metadata to dots and distribute a 600-dpi binary to the various printers in native format and output the thing as a graphic image. The downfall of this is that not all 600dpi printers output identical images for the same 600dpi input. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From thomasoniii at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 15:38:45 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Fri Sep 10 15:38:50 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] I've got a place!!! In-Reply-To: <3096c19d040910130671bcc962@mail.gmail.com> References: <20040906180812.GA16931@chloe.inkdroid.org> <4B683B97-0032-11D9-AABE-000A956859A6@pobox.com> <3096c19d040909134969e6d092@mail.gmail.com> <2df270ef04090915475a64eadb@mail.gmail.com> <3096c19d040910130671bcc962@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5cfdfaf7040910133833d10940@mail.gmail.com> Oh, Apple likes open source. At least half-assedly. Darwin is open source, after all. I think the issue referenced was that some group tried going to the apple store and running their presentation on a PC, and that got them thrown out. I don't know if they'd have an issue with PCs in the audience. I'd guess that they'd be allowed, since webobjects runs on NT, and at least some people watching a webobjects presentation may be on NT. But if you're running a presentation, you'd probably need to do it on a mac. -Jim.... On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:06:15 -0500, Chris McAvoy wrote: > There is, http://www.chipy.org. I wasn't actually suggesting we > combine the groups, just combine our efforts to enlighten the Apple > folks about how great Open Source user groups are, how they bring > businesses good luck, and always pick up after themselves. > > The Apple guy hasn't called back though. Maybe we could try writing > the Apple corp? > > Chris > > > > On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:47:07 -0500, Leland Johnson wrote: > > I would be. I have wanted to learn Python for a while (great > > alternative to be learning while I'm forced to learn java), and I have > > a powerbook. The real question of course is how many meetings we would > > have. There's really only so much perl and python people can talk > > about while under the glare of the apple store. > > > > At the Perl Mongers meeting yesterday, it was brought up that the > > apple store wouldn't like non-apple computers there, so we would be > > alienating a bunch of users in both groups. > > > > Any website for your usergroup? > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:49:30 -0500, Chris McAvoy wrote: > > > Hey Eric, I stole your idea, and tried to adapt it for the Chicago > > > Python User Group: > > > > > > http://www.lonelylion.com/pipermail/chipy/2004-September/000361.html > > > > > > It was sort of, "wow, that's a great idea." Then I just dialed the > > > number, and was surprised to find out how quickly I got a hold of the > > > theater guy's voice mail. I left him a message yesterday, but haven't > > > recieved a reply. > > > > > > Would you folks be interested in trying to write them a joint Python / > > > Perl letter or email, pointing out how heavily the two P communities > > > are "into" Apple, and how appreciative we would be if they gave us > > > space to have our meetings? > > > > > > Feel free to tell me to stick it, obviously I feel a little guilty > > > stealing your idea. I promise to buy you a beer (or beverage of your > > > choice) and sneak it into the Apple store for our first meeting. > > > > > > Don't forget to think different. > > > > > > As a side note, my voicemail message was sort of rambling. I think I > > > may have mentioned the fact that I own an iPod. > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 6 Sep 2004 13:26:39 -0500, Eric Sinclair wrote: > > > > > > > > On Sep 6, 2004, at 1:08 PM, Ed Summers wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 06, 2004 at 02:02:39PM -0400, petemar1 wrote: > > > > >> Whatever happened to the Loop? > > > > > > > > > > I was in Chicago on Friday and it was still there. Seriously though, > > > > > do you have a location in the loop where we could meet and do > > > > > presentations? > > > > > > > > Well, Brian Fitzpatrick gave me a lead on who to speak to at the Apple > > > > Store on N. Michigan Ave about using their theatre. I've dropped the > > > > an email to see about using that space... > > > > > > > > -Eric > > > > > > > > -- > > > > esinclai@pobox.com aim: esinclai > > > > http://www.kittyjoyce.com/eric/log/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > -- > > Leland Johnson > > http://protoplasmic.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > -- > Chris > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From thomasoniii at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 15:55:15 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Fri Sep 10 15:55:23 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] What should I use to make PDFs? In-Reply-To: <1094766038.4140cdd61ee18@manage.multiply.org> References: <5cfdfaf704090913407980e9c8@mail.gmail.com> <4140C1DA.6010306@waste.org> <1094766038.4140cdd61ee18@manage.multiply.org> Message-ID: <5cfdfaf70409101355359a11ee@mail.gmail.com> PDF::API2 is what I ended up going with. It is a beeyootiful beeyootiful module. But utterly lacking in docs. I did manage to track down a massive collection of docs and examples, which has helped me at least to use it, even though I still don't quite understand it. Improvement is phenomenal. Does exactly what I need and does it fast. -Jim.... On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:40:38 -0500, jason@multiply.org wrote: > I will second a vote for PDF::API2 which will handle font embedding, existing > PDF manipulation and graphics very nicely. The docs are not distributed with > the distro in CPAN though, so you will have to go looking for them. > > For a commercial library you can use libPDF from a german company, but it is > 1400 bucks. Great software, though. > > -jason gessner > jason@multiply.org > > > > Quoting ogden nefix : > > > > > Jim Thomason wrote: > > > Does anybody have a favorite PDF creation module? > > > > > > > I have used PDF::API2 which works fine and can use different fonts and > > you can set new pages whenever you wish. > > > > http://pdfapi2.sourceforge.net/ > > > > Ogden > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From lembark at wrkhors.com Fri Sep 10 16:49:43 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Fri Sep 10 16:50:08 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] What should I use to make PDFs? In-Reply-To: <5cfdfaf70409101355359a11ee@mail.gmail.com> References: <5cfdfaf704090913407980e9c8@mail.gmail.com> <4140C1DA.6010306@waste.org> <1094766038.4140cdd61ee18@manage.multiply.org> <5cfdfaf70409101355359a11ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <36F7174F64B43B9C3610C9C1@duke.wrkhors.com> -- Jim Thomason > I did manage to track down a massive > collection of docs and examples, which has helped me at least to use Where? -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From thomasoniii at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 16:55:59 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Fri Sep 10 16:56:04 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] What should I use to make PDFs? In-Reply-To: <36F7174F64B43B9C3610C9C1@duke.wrkhors.com> References: <5cfdfaf704090913407980e9c8@mail.gmail.com> <4140C1DA.6010306@waste.org> <1094766038.4140cdd61ee18@manage.multiply.org> <5cfdfaf70409101355359a11ee@mail.gmail.com> <36F7174F64B43B9C3610C9C1@duke.wrkhors.com> Message-ID: <5cfdfaf7040910145572c4381d@mail.gmail.com> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/doc/libpdf-api2-perl-doc There's a tarball semi-hidden down at the bottom, if you don't want the deb file. The docs aren't that great, but the examples were illustrative. The examples + looking at the source (which does have sparse, but useful comments) have been the most use to me. -Jim.... On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:49:43 -0400, Steven Lembark wrote: > > > -- Jim Thomason > > > I did manage to track down a massive > > collection of docs and examples, which has helped me at least to use > > Where? > > > > > -- > Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street > Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 > lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From onefix at waste.org Fri Sep 10 16:57:54 2004 From: onefix at waste.org (ogden nefix) Date: Fri Sep 10 16:57:38 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] What should I use to make PDFs? In-Reply-To: <36F7174F64B43B9C3610C9C1@duke.wrkhors.com> References: <5cfdfaf704090913407980e9c8@mail.gmail.com> <4140C1DA.6010306@waste.org> <1094766038.4140cdd61ee18@manage.multiply.org> <5cfdfaf70409101355359a11ee@mail.gmail.com> <36F7174F64B43B9C3610C9C1@duke.wrkhors.com> Message-ID: <41422362.1070405@waste.org> Steven Lembark wrote: > > > -- Jim Thomason > >> I did manage to track down a massive >> collection of docs and examples, which has helped me at least to use > > > Where? > > http://pdfapi2.sourceforge.net/dl/ The file "examples+contrib+docs-0.3r77.tar.gz". At least that is what I used to get going.. Ogden From me at heyjay.com Sun Sep 12 09:44:58 2004 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Sun Sep 12 09:45:06 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Getting a thread to end Message-ID: <000701c498d7$155af690$6405a8c0@a30a> Hi, I'm getting: A thread exited while 2 threads were running. I've got a setup like: run.pl uses security my $security = security->new() uses brokerage uses tws use reader (which starts a new thread) I get the message when run.pl ends. While I understand the meaning of the message, I'm not sure how to get around it. I have a DESTROY method in "tws" that isn't getting called. Inside "tws": sub DESTROY { my $self = shift; $self->disconnect if $self->connected; }; sub disconnect { my ($self) = @_; return unless $self->connected; $self->reader->stop; $self->socket->close; $self->connected(0); } Then inside of "reader" I've got: sub stop { my $self = shift; ${$self->_run} = 0; my $t = $self->_thread; $t->join; } What I'd like to happen is when "run.pl" ends or is CTRL-C'd I'd like the $tws->disconnect to be called so that things get wrapped up correctly. Thanks Jay From komtanoo at gmail.com Sun Sep 12 16:21:04 2004 From: komtanoo at gmail.com (Komtanoo Pinpimai) Date: Sun Sep 12 16:21:14 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Getting a thread to end In-Reply-To: <000701c498d7$155af690$6405a8c0@a30a> References: <000701c498d7$155af690$6405a8c0@a30a> Message-ID: <94e57749040912142149c10243@mail.gmail.com> > > What I'd like to happen is when "run.pl" ends or is CTRL-C'd I'd like > the $tws->disconnect to be called so that things get wrapped up > correctly. > > Thanks > Jay > Catch $SIG{INT} interrupt for CTRL-C inorder to call your disconnect functions ? From andy at petdance.com Mon Sep 13 17:48:14 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Sep 13 17:48:17 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Next meeting: Wed the 6th in Grayslake, right? Message-ID: <20040913224814.GA7853@petdance.com> I haven't heard anything that's a better alternative to Grayslake, so I'm assuming there isn't any so far. Disagreement? Jason, you gonna do the TT/Mason shootout? Can I get an abstract? Thanks, xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From jason at multiply.org Mon Sep 13 14:07:15 2004 From: jason at multiply.org (jason scott gessner) Date: Mon Sep 13 19:07:06 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Next meeting: Wed the 6th in Grayslake, right? In-Reply-To: <20040913224814.GA7853@petdance.com> References: <20040913224814.GA7853@petdance.com> Message-ID: <1095102435.27943.1.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2004-09-13 at 17:48, Andy Lester wrote: > I haven't heard anything that's a better alternative to Grayslake, so > I'm assuming there isn't any so far. Disagreement? > > Jason, you gonna do the TT/Mason shootout? Can I get an abstract? > > Thanks, > xoxo, > Andy I don't have an opponent to do the TT showdown with. Perhaps at a later date we can do a compare/contrast. I still want to do a Mason presentation, though, and it will basically go like this: 1) What is Mason? 2) Why is it useful? 3) How can I convert an existing "web app" to take advantage of Mason and it's BONE CRUSHING POWER. :) -jason scott gessner jason@multiply.org From shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 21:54:10 2004 From: shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com (Shawn Carroll) Date: Mon Sep 13 21:54:15 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Phalanx Project Message-ID: Is it possible for someone to do regular coverage reports of HTML::Tree? I ask as I cannot do them myself (Win32 perl, active state), and I would like to be able just to find code paths that haven't been tested yet. --Shawn -- shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com Perl Programmer Soccer Referee From me at heyjay.com Mon Sep 13 22:55:51 2004 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Sep 13 23:46:57 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Getting a thread to end References: <000701c498d7$155af690$6405a8c0@a30a> <94e57749040912142149c10243@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000201c49a15$d962fb70$6405a8c0@a30a> Thanks for the reply Komtanoo, That doesnt' work for me though, Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Komtanoo Pinpimai" To: "Chicago.pm chatter" Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] Getting a thread to end > > > > What I'd like to happen is when "run.pl" ends or is CTRL-C'd I'd like > > the $tws->disconnect to be called so that things get wrapped up > > correctly. > > > > Thanks > > Jay > > > > Catch $SIG{INT} interrupt for CTRL-C inorder to call your disconnect functions ? > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > From lembark at wrkhors.com Tue Sep 14 06:30:41 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Tue Sep 14 06:31:19 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Getting a thread to end In-Reply-To: <000201c49a15$d962fb70$6405a8c0@a30a> References: <000701c498d7$155af690$6405a8c0@a30a> <94e57749040912142149c10243@mail.gmail.com> <000201c49a15$d962fb70$6405a8c0@a30a> Message-ID: -- Jay Strauss >> Catch $SIG{INT} > Thanks for the reply Komtanoo, > > That doesnt' work for me though, All ^C does on unix is issue a SIGINT. What about catching the SIGNIT doesn't work for handling ^C in your situation? At worst you can use $SIG{__DIE__} -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From rich at mossltd.com Tue Sep 14 10:50:55 2004 From: rich at mossltd.com (Richard Moss) Date: Tue Sep 14 10:51:22 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] perl DBI/OO developers for Chicago with PROMOD Message-ID: <20040914155119.WHRQ4801.imta01a2.registeredsite.com@RICHOFFICE> One of the clients I represent is a private financial firm that is looking for some perl developers to join their growing IT staff. They look for strong OO perl and perl DBI programmers who have extensive experience writing regular expressions to parse and load data into databases. You'll have to have s thorough understanding of SQL (Sybase preferred), Solaris/Linux and shell scripting for these jobs. You'll be rewarded with an opportunity to work for one of the best perl development shops in the US, with an opportunity to write robust perl applications. They are looking for people who have experience with PROMOD software as well. If any of you are interested in this, or know where to look for people with perl and PROMOD, give me a call. Rich Moss Moss Search, LTD 630.724.9000 www.mossltd.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20040914/ff038669/attachment.htm From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Wed Sep 15 08:44:15 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org) Date: Wed Sep 15 08:44:17 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Xtreme Programming Group In-Reply-To: <20040909143202.GB15307@petdance.com> References: <200409072000.i87K0TxY000526@www.pm.org> <20040908231607.GC3038@utility> <2df270ef04090821581edc0994@mail.gmail.com> <3070FFF6-0266-11D9-A72E-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> <41346.12.119.251.194.1094738363.squirrel@12.119.251.194> <20040909143202.GB15307@petdance.com> Message-ID: <29345.12.119.251.194.1095255855.squirrel@12.119.251.194> > On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 08:59:23AM -0500, jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org > (jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org) wrote: >> Feel free to suggest alternate date/time/locations! > > If you do get things going, let me know everyone's auth.perl.org IDs so > I can get you set up in the svn server. > > xoxo, > Andy Hi everyone! Just a reminder about this weekends eXtreme Piranha(the new official name) meeting at Panera Bread in downtown Evanston. So far I have commitments from 2 people, and I'm looking for a couple more. We'll be meeting at 11:30. Also, see Andy's reminder above. This week the plan is to work on the phalanx project. Specifically the HTML::Tree module that Chicago-PM adopted at the last meeting. We'll be hopefully writing more tests, and improving the coverage some more! Of course feel free to bring any questions on personal problems for the group to look at. Jon From ejanev2 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 15 16:56:39 2004 From: ejanev2 at yahoo.com (Emil Janev) Date: Wed Sep 15 16:56:42 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Xtreme Programming Group In-Reply-To: <29345.12.119.251.194.1095255855.squirrel@12.119.251.194> Message-ID: <20040915215639.71619.qmail@web53907.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Jon, I am interested into comming this Saturday too. As I barelly know Evanston ( except that it is north of Chicago, close to the lake, and home to one of the famous universities :). Please send me a personal message about the location/directions (I live in Mount Prospect close to Golf Road), and/or post the address of the place. Regards, Emil --- jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 08:59:23AM -0500, jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org > > (jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org) wrote: > >> Feel free to suggest alternate date/time/locations! > > > > If you do get things going, let me know everyone's auth.perl.org IDs so > > I can get you set up in the svn server. > > > > xoxo, > > Andy > > Hi everyone! > > Just a reminder about this weekends eXtreme Piranha(the new official name) > meeting at Panera Bread in downtown Evanston. So far I have commitments > from 2 people, and I'm looking for a couple more. We'll be meeting at > 11:30. Also, see Andy's reminder above. > > This week the plan is to work on the phalanx project. Specifically the > HTML::Tree module that Chicago-PM adopted at the last meeting. We'll be > hopefully writing more tests, and improving the coverage some more! Of > course feel free to bring any questions on personal problems for the group > to look at. > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Thu Sep 16 07:48:55 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org) Date: Thu Sep 16 07:48:57 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Xtreme Programming Group In-Reply-To: <20040915215639.71619.qmail@web53907.mail.yahoo.com> References: <29345.12.119.251.194.1095255855.squirrel@12.119.251.194> <20040915215639.71619.qmail@web53907.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <18811.12.119.251.194.1095338935.squirrel@12.119.251.194> Hi! Thanks for the note. I guess I should have included a map/directions. Here is a link to Panera's main site: http://www.panerabread.com/default.aspx and one to a map: http://www.panerabread.com/Map.aspx?LocationId=388 Anyone who needs more info can email me offlist and I'll give out my cell-phone number. Jon > Hi Jon, > > I am interested into comming this Saturday too. > > As I barelly know Evanston ( except that it is north of Chicago, close to > the lake, and home > to one of the famous universities :). > > Please send me a personal message about the location/directions (I live in > Mount Prospect > close to Golf Road), > and/or post the address of the place. > > Regards, > Emil > > --- jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org wrote: > >> > On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 08:59:23AM -0500, >> jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org >> > (jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org) wrote: >> >> Feel free to suggest alternate date/time/locations! >> > >> > If you do get things going, let me know everyone's auth.perl.org IDs >> so >> > I can get you set up in the svn server. >> > >> > xoxo, >> > Andy >> >> Hi everyone! >> >> Just a reminder about this weekends eXtreme Piranha(the new official >> name) >> meeting at Panera Bread in downtown Evanston. So far I have commitments >> from 2 people, and I'm looking for a couple more. We'll be meeting at >> 11:30. Also, see Andy's reminder above. >> >> This week the plan is to work on the phalanx project. Specifically the >> HTML::Tree module that Chicago-PM adopted at the last meeting. We'll be >> hopefully writing more tests, and improving the coverage some more! Of >> course feel free to bring any questions on personal problems for the >> group >> to look at. >> >> Jon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago-talk mailing list >> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk >> > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From shepherd_tony at yahoo.com Thu Sep 16 09:49:27 2004 From: shepherd_tony at yahoo.com (Tony King) Date: Thu Sep 16 09:49:30 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Xtreme Programming Group In-Reply-To: <20040915215639.71619.qmail@web53907.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040916144927.29351.qmail@web60401.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Emil, If you live close to Golf Rd, you can take it straight east. In Evanston, Golf becomes Emerson (I think its right after you cross McCormick) and you'll need to stay on it until you get to Clark. Clark makes a slight bend to the right when you get to the Metra tracks. You'll see some Northwestern buildings at that point, in particular, Engelhart dormitory on your left. From Clark, go down to the second light and make a right on Sherman Ave. Go down one block and Panera is at the corner of Sherman and Church. Unfortunately I won't be there on Saturday but sounds like it'll be pretty cool. There may be a faster way from Mount Prospect though; perhaps someone can help out with that. Thanks Tony --- Emil Janev wrote: > Hi Jon, > > I am interested into comming this Saturday too. > > As I barelly know Evanston ( except that it is north > of Chicago, close to the lake, and home > to one of the famous universities :). > > Please send me a personal message about the > location/directions (I live in Mount Prospect > close to Golf Road), > and/or post the address of the place. > > Regards, > Emil > > --- jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org wrote: > > > > On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 08:59:23AM -0500, > jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org > > > (jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org) wrote: > > >> Feel free to suggest alternate > date/time/locations! > > > > > > If you do get things going, let me know > everyone's auth.perl.org IDs so > > > I can get you set up in the svn server. > > > > > > xoxo, > > > Andy > > > > Hi everyone! > > > > Just a reminder about this weekends eXtreme > Piranha(the new official name) > > meeting at Panera Bread in downtown Evanston. So > far I have commitments > > from 2 people, and I'm looking for a couple more. > We'll be meeting at > > 11:30. Also, see Andy's reminder above. > > > > This week the plan is to work on the phalanx > project. Specifically the > > HTML::Tree module that Chicago-PM adopted at the > last meeting. We'll be > > hopefully writing more tests, and improving the > coverage some more! Of > > course feel free to bring any questions on > personal problems for the group > > to look at. > > > > Jon > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We > finish. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com Thu Sep 16 12:23:28 2004 From: shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com (Shawn Carroll) Date: Thu Sep 16 12:24:05 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] SVN Checkin announcements Message-ID: Would it be possible to have checkins to the SVN repository send email out to interested parties? -- shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com Perl Programmer Soccer Referee From ejanev2 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 16 13:56:16 2004 From: ejanev2 at yahoo.com (Emil Janev) Date: Thu Sep 16 13:56:18 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Xtreme Programming Group In-Reply-To: <20040916144927.29351.qmail@web60401.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040916185616.59024.qmail@web53902.mail.yahoo.com> Tony, Thanks much. Your directions together with what I saw from the maps ( posted by Jon) are pretty clear. And if I remember well, you would be the guy working at Nortwestern, maybe doing something with Bioperl too. I think it would be a nice topic for presentation or discussion, even on a small meeting like this one. Regards, Emil --- Tony King wrote: > Hi Emil, > > If you live close to Golf Rd, you can take it straight > east. In Evanston, Golf becomes Emerson (I think its > right after you cross McCormick) and you'll need to > stay on it until you get to Clark. Clark makes a > slight bend to the right when you get to the Metra > tracks. You'll see some Northwestern buildings at that > point, in particular, Engelhart dormitory on your > left. From Clark, go down to the second light and make > a right on Sherman Ave. Go down one block and Panera > is at the corner of Sherman and Church. > > Unfortunately I won't be there on Saturday but sounds > like it'll be pretty cool. > > There may be a faster way from Mount Prospect though; > perhaps someone can help out with that. > > Thanks > Tony __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov Thu Sep 16 14:54:57 2004 From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov) Date: Thu Sep 16 14:55:03 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Headhunter call Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20040916/1d146f1f/attachment.htm From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Thu Sep 16 15:21:33 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org) Date: Thu Sep 16 15:21:36 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Headhunter call In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <30540.12.119.251.194.1095366093.squirrel@12.119.251.194> >Just got a call from a > headhunter looking for a perl programmer/developer (OOP, DBI) in the > Chicago area.  I'm set and he admitted he'd gotten my name/phone from > this list. He also said he'd left a msg w/ Andy L. but gave me no details > on the job. Did/do we have a policy on those sorts of postings? >Andy Bach,Sys.Mangler >Internet: andy_bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov    
VOICE: (608) 261-5738  FAX 264-5932

Conscience is a mother-in-law whose visit never ends.
                -- H. L. Mencken
_______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk I think the policy should be to post as many decent leads to the list as possible. ;) Jon From lembark at wrkhors.com Thu Sep 16 15:36:42 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Thu Sep 16 15:37:07 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Headhunter call In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2CDEE36486B4BA9F82758BFA@duke.wrkhors.com> > Just got a call from a headhunter looking for a perl programmer/developer > (OOP, DBI) in the Chicago area. I'm set and he admitted he'd gotten my > name/phone from this list. He also said he'd left a msg w/ Andy L. but > gave me no details on the job. > > Did/do we have a policy on those sorts of postings? Headunters are encouraged to attend our meetings, join the list, and post jobs. Anyone who looks up "chicago perl" is going to get the archives in any case :-) If you prefer not to be contacted, telling them once should be sufficient. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov Fri Sep 17 10:08:42 2004 From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov) Date: Fri Sep 17 10:08:50 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Looking through the symbol table? Message-ID: Somebody's asked me: Is there a command in perl (or an easy way) that identifies subroutine names that become available to the parent script after a "require" or "use" statement? About the best I could guess (I've asked 'why?' but not heard) would be to do some sort of save of the sub names in the symbol table and then compare after each 'use/require', but, frankly, I don't know how to do that. Any help or better guesses? a Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler Internet: andy_bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov VOICE: (608) 261-5738 FAX 264-5932 Conscience is a mother-in-law whose visit never ends. -- H. L. Mencken From andy at petdance.com Fri Sep 17 10:38:25 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Fri Sep 17 10:38:27 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Looking through the symbol table? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040917153825.GA24617@petdance.com> On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 10:08:42AM -0500, Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov) wrote: > Somebody's asked me: > Is there a command in perl (or an easy way) that identifies subroutine > names that become available to the parent script after a "require" > or "use" statement? Sure, look at %main:: As in use Data::Dumper; print Dumper( \%main:: ); -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From lembark at wrkhors.com Fri Sep 17 13:02:16 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Fri Sep 17 13:02:42 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Looking through the symbol table? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <138DF7F3732382189DC7D7AD@duke.wrkhors.com> > Somebody's asked me: > Is there a command in perl (or an easy way) that identifies subroutine > names that become available to the parent script after a "require" > or "use" statement? > > About the best I could guess (I've asked 'why?' but not heard) would be > to do some sort of save of the sub names in the symbol table and then > compare after each 'use/require', but, frankly, I don't know how to do > that. Any help or better guesses? You can play with %:: or use the Symbol:: modules to look around. The debugger also has a few nice commands for looking up symbols by package. What are they trying to do with the symbols? -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From don at drakeconsult.com Fri Sep 17 15:25:20 2004 From: don at drakeconsult.com (Don Drake) Date: Fri Sep 17 15:25:49 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Senior Perl Developer (Contractor) Message-ID: <200409172025.i8HKPl2r011457@www.pm.org> I'm looking for a Senior Perl developer for a contract position starting immediately for at least 3 months (extensions likely). You must be able to work on-site and full-time in Rosemont, have extensive experience in parsing, writing complex regular expressions, using complex perl data structures (e.g. Hash of Hash of Hash of Hash of Array), and perl OO methods. The position is primarily development and some support for a large data collecting/transformation application that is the source of a data warehouse. Any C++, Oracle9i, Expect, KSH scripting is a plus. Any telecom experience is also a plus. Please email me directly with a resume and cover letter. Thanks. -Don Donald Drake President Drake Consulting http://www.drakeconsult.com/ 312-560-1574 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20040917/435a7843/attachment.htm From andy at petdance.com Sat Sep 18 20:57:52 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Sat Sep 18 20:57:54 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress Message-ID: <20040919015752.GA29102@petdance.com> So what happened with HTML::Tree today? I've seen a lot of updates, but t/tree.t fails. xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Sat Sep 18 21:32:06 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (Jon Amundsen) Date: Sat Sep 18 21:32:10 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: <20040919015752.GA29102@petdance.com> References: <20040919015752.GA29102@petdance.com> Message-ID: <20040919023205.GQ3038@utility> On Sat, Sep 18, 2004 at 08:57:52PM -0500, Andy Lester wrote: > > So what happened with HTML::Tree today? I've seen a lot of updates, but > t/tree.t fails. > > xoxo, > Andy > > -- > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk We think it may be an actual bug in HTML::Parse or somewhere. It doesn't seem to handle nested html comments like: --> I refactored the html test data this evening and split the 'comment' test into 2 tests. One for simple comments and one for nested. No one has tackled the actual code or standard yet. It may be that nested comments aren't valid html, but may be supported in the spirit of 'be lenient in what you receive'? Leland volunteered to update the kwiki... I suspect you'll see more info on our days activities by tomorrow. I'll probably send something more to the list also... -- Jon Amundsen jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. -- Mahatma Gandhi -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20040918/073bcefe/attachment.bin From easyasy2k at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 00:49:18 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Sun Sep 19 00:49:23 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: <20040919023205.GQ3038@utility> References: <20040919015752.GA29102@petdance.com> <20040919023205.GQ3038@utility> Message-ID: <2df270ef04091822496003e24f@mail.gmail.com> Yes, that is the major question we had during our meeting. shawn.c.carroll added t/tree.t in r40, which failed tests 7 and 13 out of the box (they are the exact same test, just one is read from a file and the other is read from a string). The _test_ case says that it should not find the word "comment" because all instances are in a comment, or _recursive_ comment. This test fails because currently the _module_ does not deal with recursive comments, so they are converted to escaped HTML. (This paragraph is all at revision 40!) We need the author to decide on what the final solution to this should be, then change the tests appropriately. Jon has made an additional test for simple comments in t/tree.t. That test is run twice for new_from_content and new_from_file. Now, t/tree.t fails the exact same tests as before, but they are now tests #7 and #14. So, as of now, someone needs to fake a final call on how nested comments should be handled. On a more general note, the test coverage is up (and mercilessly refactored) since our meeting today. You can see the two pages here on my website: Before: http://s89790145.onlinehome.us/random/phalanx_chicago/cover_dbr42/coverage.html and now.... http://s89790145.onlinehome.us/random/phalanx_chicago/cover_dbr59/coverage.html So the net coverage increased by... 3%! Now, that not too impressive, but a lot of the tests were refactored, a test case found an (architecture) bug, and a module that previously had 0% test coverage has 100%! Also, a lot was learned about subversion and the annoyance of a commit setting the trunk on fire. This was done a few times during our session (oops) and it is still burning, so somebody make the contacts needed to put it out! I need to go to bed right now, but I'll have detailed results on all that happened at the meeting up on the wiki in the afternoon tomorrow, once I get a plug for my laptop again, and go over the commit logs. On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 21:32:06 -0500, Jon Amundsen wrote: > > > On Sat, Sep 18, 2004 at 08:57:52PM -0500, Andy Lester wrote: > > > > So what happened with HTML::Tree today? I've seen a lot of updates, but > > t/tree.t fails. > > > > xoxo, > > Andy > > > > -- > > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > We think it may be an actual bug in HTML::Parse or somewhere. It doesn't seem to handle nested html comments like: > > > --> > > I refactored the html test data this evening and split the 'comment' test into 2 tests. One for simple comments and one for nested. No one has tackled the actual code or standard yet. It may be that nested comments aren't valid html, but may be supported in the spirit of 'be lenient in what you receive'? > > Leland volunteered to update the kwiki... I suspect you'll see more info on our days activities by tomorrow. I'll probably send something more to the list also... > > -- > > Jon Amundsen > jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org > > A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a > "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. > -- Mahatma Gandhi > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Sun Sep 19 08:06:12 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (Jon Amundsen) Date: Sun Sep 19 08:06:17 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: <2df270ef04091822496003e24f@mail.gmail.com> References: <20040919015752.GA29102@petdance.com> <20040919023205.GQ3038@utility> <2df270ef04091822496003e24f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040919130612.GR3038@utility> After I sent my message in this thread yesterday, I did even more research... and more commits! ;) First of all I changed oldparse.t to use the html file instead of a here document. Something we did in tree.t earlier in the day. Now they are all using the same data. Interestingly enough oldparse.t passes the 'nested-comment' test? So... I am now suspecting the 'new_from_*' calls as not performing some step when wrapping the lower level calls...? Hopefully I'll find time today to dig deeper... On Sun, Sep 19, 2004 at 12:49:18AM -0500, Leland Johnson wrote: > Yes, that is the major question we had during our meeting. > > shawn.c.carroll added t/tree.t in r40, which failed tests 7 and 13 out > of the box (they are the exact same test, just one is read from a file > and the other is read from a string). The _test_ case says that it > should not find the word "comment" because all instances are in a > comment, or _recursive_ comment. This test fails because currently the > _module_ does not deal with recursive comments, so they are converted > to escaped HTML. (This paragraph is all at revision 40!) > > We need the author to decide on what the final solution to this should > be, then change the tests appropriately. Jon has made an additional > test for simple comments in t/tree.t. That test is run twice for > new_from_content and new_from_file. Now, t/tree.t fails the exact same > tests as before, but they are now tests #7 and #14. > > So, as of now, someone needs to fake a final call on how nested > comments should be handled. > > > On a more general note, the test coverage is up (and mercilessly > refactored) since our meeting today. You can see the two pages here on > my website: > Before: > http://s89790145.onlinehome.us/random/phalanx_chicago/cover_dbr42/coverage.html > and now.... > http://s89790145.onlinehome.us/random/phalanx_chicago/cover_dbr59/coverage.html > > So the net coverage increased by... 3%! > > Now, that not too impressive, but a lot of the tests were refactored, > a test case found an (architecture) bug, and a module that previously > had 0% test coverage has 100%! Also, a lot was learned about > subversion and the annoyance of a commit setting the trunk on fire. > This was done a few times during our session (oops) and it is still > burning, so somebody make the contacts needed to put it out! > > I need to go to bed right now, but I'll have detailed results on all > that happened at the meeting up on the wiki in the afternoon tomorrow, > once I get a plug for my laptop again, and go over the commit logs. > > > On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 21:32:06 -0500, Jon Amundsen > wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 18, 2004 at 08:57:52PM -0500, Andy Lester wrote: > > > > > > So what happened with HTML::Tree today? I've seen a lot of updates, but > > > t/tree.t fails. > > > > > > xoxo, > > > Andy > > > > > > -- > > > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > We think it may be an actual bug in HTML::Parse or somewhere. It doesn't seem to handle nested html comments like: > > > > > > --> > > > > I refactored the html test data this evening and split the 'comment' test into 2 tests. One for simple comments and one for nested. No one has tackled the actual code or standard yet. It may be that nested comments aren't valid html, but may be supported in the spirit of 'be lenient in what you receive'? > > > > Leland volunteered to update the kwiki... I suspect you'll see more info on our days activities by tomorrow. I'll probably send something more to the list also... > > > > -- > > > > Jon Amundsen > > jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org > > > > A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a > > "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. > > -- Mahatma Gandhi > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Leland Johnson > http://protoplasmic.org > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk -- Jon Amundsen jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. -- Mahatma Gandhi -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20040919/3d6b87e4/attachment.bin From andy at petdance.com Sun Sep 19 10:41:26 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Sun Sep 19 10:41:28 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: <20040919130612.GR3038@utility> References: <20040919015752.GA29102@petdance.com> <20040919023205.GQ3038@utility> <2df270ef04091822496003e24f@mail.gmail.com> <20040919130612.GR3038@utility> Message-ID: <5DE6CDC2-0A52-11D9-A809-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> > oldparse.t passes the 'nested-comment' test? So... I am now > suspecting the 'new_from_*' calls as not performing some step when > wrapping the lower level calls...? Hopefully I'll find time today to > dig deeper... > Beautiful. This is exactly the sort of thing I thought we might dig up. xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Sun Sep 19 11:07:24 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (Jon Amundsen) Date: Sun Sep 19 11:07:28 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: <5DE6CDC2-0A52-11D9-A809-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> References: <20040919015752.GA29102@petdance.com> <20040919023205.GQ3038@utility> <2df270ef04091822496003e24f@mail.gmail.com> <20040919130612.GR3038@utility> <5DE6CDC2-0A52-11D9-A809-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> Message-ID: <20040919160724.GT3038@utility> On Sun, Sep 19, 2004 at 10:41:26AM -0500, Andy Lester wrote: > >oldparse.t passes the 'nested-comment' test? So... I am now > >suspecting the 'new_from_*' calls as not performing some step when > >wrapping the lower level calls...? Hopefully I'll find time today to > >dig deeper... > > > > Beautiful. This is exactly the sort of thing I thought we might dig up. > > xoxo, > Andy > > -- > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk Well... I haven't found it yet, but added some new tests. Also, at http://jamundsen.dyndns.org/phalanx/ I have coverage for verious svn version numbers run. I've cron'd it daily at midnight, so what ever version we're at will show up. After a week or so I'll probably add something to trim all but the last 7. That way we can see our progress! -- Jon Amundsen jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. -- Mahatma Gandhi -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20040919/3968195f/attachment.bin From easyasy2k at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 11:39:37 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Sun Sep 19 11:39:49 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: <5DE6CDC2-0A52-11D9-A809-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> References: <20040919015752.GA29102@petdance.com> <20040919023205.GQ3038@utility> <2df270ef04091822496003e24f@mail.gmail.com> <20040919130612.GR3038@utility> <5DE6CDC2-0A52-11D9-A809-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> Message-ID: <2df270ef040919093953c4c5e3@mail.gmail.com> Wow, that does sound interesting. Too bad I can't really look into it right now. I've still got to do some of the POD markup stuff and see if I have commit privileges. On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 10:41:26 -0500, Andy Lester wrote: > > oldparse.t passes the 'nested-comment' test? So... I am now > > suspecting the 'new_from_*' calls as not performing some step when > > wrapping the lower level calls...? Hopefully I'll find time today to > > dig deeper... > > > > Beautiful. This is exactly the sort of thing I thought we might dig up. > > > > xoxo, > Andy > > -- > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 14:04:04 2004 From: shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com (Shawn Carroll) Date: Sun Sep 19 14:04:41 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: <2df270ef040919093953c4c5e3@mail.gmail.com> References: <20040919015752.GA29102@petdance.com> <20040919023205.GQ3038@utility> <2df270ef04091822496003e24f@mail.gmail.com> <20040919130612.GR3038@utility> <5DE6CDC2-0A52-11D9-A809-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> <2df270ef040919093953c4c5e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Should we forward this to the author? Or get the author on the list? On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:39:37 -0500, Leland Johnson wrote: > Wow, that does sound interesting. Too bad I can't really look into it > right now. I've still got to do some of the POD markup stuff and see > if I have commit privileges. > > > > > On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 10:41:26 -0500, Andy Lester wrote: > > > oldparse.t passes the 'nested-comment' test? So... I am now > > > suspecting the 'new_from_*' calls as not performing some step when > > > wrapping the lower level calls...? Hopefully I'll find time today to > > > dig deeper... > > > > > > > Beautiful. This is exactly the sort of thing I thought we might dig up. > > > > > > > > xoxo, > > Andy > > > > -- > > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > -- > Leland Johnson > http://protoplasmic.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com Perl Programmer Soccer Referee From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Sun Sep 19 14:34:32 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (Jon Amundsen) Date: Sun Sep 19 14:34:37 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: References: <20040919015752.GA29102@petdance.com> <20040919023205.GQ3038@utility> <2df270ef04091822496003e24f@mail.gmail.com> <20040919130612.GR3038@utility> <5DE6CDC2-0A52-11D9-A809-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> <2df270ef040919093953c4c5e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040919193432.GU3038@utility> I'm working on it now... I'd like to narrow down exactly what is happening before we bug the author... ;) -- Jon Amundsen jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. -- Mahatma Gandhi On Sun, Sep 19, 2004 at 02:04:04PM -0500, Shawn Carroll wrote: > Should we forward this to the author? Or get the author on the list? > > > On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:39:37 -0500, Leland Johnson wrote: > > Wow, that does sound interesting. Too bad I can't really look into it > > right now. I've still got to do some of the POD markup stuff and see > > if I have commit privileges. > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 10:41:26 -0500, Andy Lester wrote: > > > > oldparse.t passes the 'nested-comment' test? So... I am now > > > > suspecting the 'new_from_*' calls as not performing some step when > > > > wrapping the lower level calls...? Hopefully I'll find time today to > > > > dig deeper... > > > > > > > > > > Beautiful. This is exactly the sort of thing I thought we might dig up. > > > > > > > > > > > > xoxo, > > > Andy > > > > > > -- > > > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > > > -- > > Leland Johnson > > http://protoplasmic.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > -- > shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com > Perl Programmer > Soccer Referee > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20040919/fdb8d476/attachment.bin From andy at petdance.com Sun Sep 19 14:56:02 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Sun Sep 19 14:56:05 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: References: <20040919015752.GA29102@petdance.com> <20040919023205.GQ3038@utility> <2df270ef04091822496003e24f@mail.gmail.com> <20040919130612.GR3038@utility> <5DE6CDC2-0A52-11D9-A809-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> <2df270ef040919093953c4c5e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sep 19, 2004, at 2:04 PM, Shawn Carroll wrote: > Should we forward this to the author? Or get the author on the list? Just email Sean directly. I'm sure he'd be interested. Ditto with Jon's summaries. -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From thomasoniii at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 16:35:25 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Sun Sep 19 16:35:32 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] error reporting in overridden method Message-ID: <5cfdfaf70409191435763ae149@mail.gmail.com> I can't believe I haven't had to do this yet. I probably just didn't think of this as an issue at the time when I have. Okay, I have a class that has a method. The method validates input and returns errors if anything invalid is passed in. It does it via error codes, but it's not important. Exceptions would function the same way for purposes of this example. Anyway, I subclassed it and overrode the method, providing different functionality in terms of how the arguments are used and returned. But, I realized that I still wanted to validate the arguments in the same way that the superclass does. And that's my conundrum. I can duplicate the validation in the subclass, but code duplication is bad. Especially in this case, since I'd be concerned about the error values getting out of sync. Since the super and sub objects are designed to be drop in replacements for each other (love that polymorphism!) this is potentially a huge problem, if code is looking for an error that one reports one way and the other reports another way. In this case, I realized that I was able to simply twiddle the arguments slightly and hand them back up to the superclass method to let it handle all validation. But I haven't come up with a clever solution to do it in the general case where you can't hand off to the super method. The closest thing to a general method I can think of is to have another method in the super class specifically to do the validation of the args passed into the original method, but that really doesn't seem like a good solution to me (too many extra validation methods need to run around then). Anybody have any good ideas? -Jim.... From merlyn at stonehenge.com Sun Sep 19 17:09:28 2004 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Sun Sep 19 17:09:31 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] error reporting in overridden method In-Reply-To: <5cfdfaf70409191435763ae149@mail.gmail.com> References: <5cfdfaf70409191435763ae149@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <86k6upkj1j.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Jim" == Jim Thomason writes: Jim> Anyway, I subclassed it and overrode the method, This is the source of your problems. If you aren't doing everything the parent did, you're not properly subclassing. If you can't call SUPER, you should refactor the parent method so that it provides parts you *can* call, and skip the parts you *can't* call. So, instead of Parent->validate being standalone, we get Parent->validate that calls Parent->validate1, Parent->validate2, Parent->validate3 and then in the kid, we override as Child->validate2 so that we replace only that part of the code, permitting parts 1 and 3 to still be called. Or something like that. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 07:29:32 2004 From: shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com (Shawn Carroll) Date: Mon Sep 20 07:29:38 2004 Subject: Fwd: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: References: <20040919015752.GA29102@petdance.com> <20040919023205.GQ3038@utility> <2df270ef04091822496003e24f@mail.gmail.com> <20040919130612.GR3038@utility> <5DE6CDC2-0A52-11D9-A809-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> <2df270ef040919093953c4c5e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sean, I'm with Chicago.pm and as you know we've started to improve and increase the testing of your HTML::Tree package. We think we may have found a bug in how HTML::Tree handles nested comments. Please review this tread. --Shawn ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Andy Lester Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:56:02 -0500 Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress To: "Chicago.pm chatter" On Sep 19, 2004, at 2:04 PM, Shawn Carroll wrote: > Should we forward this to the author? Or get the author on the list? Just email Sean directly. I'm sure he'd be interested. Ditto with Jon's summaries. -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance _______________________________________________ Chicago-talk mailing list Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk -- shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com Perl Programmer Soccer Referee From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Mon Sep 20 08:14:35 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org) Date: Mon Sep 20 08:14:37 2004 Subject: Fwd: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: References: <20040919015752.GA29102@petdance.com> <20040919023205.GQ3038@utility> <2df270ef04091822496003e24f@mail.gmail.com> <20040919130612.GR3038@utility> <5DE6CDC2-0A52-11D9-A809-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> <2df270ef040919093953c4c5e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <15436.12.119.251.194.1095686075.squirrel@12.119.251.194> Also Shawn Carroll. Can you look at your commit for split.t? I get some warnings on it now. Jon > Sean, > > I'm with Chicago.pm and as you know we've started to improve and > increase the testing of your HTML::Tree package. We think we may have > found a bug in how HTML::Tree handles nested comments. Please review > this tread. > > --Shawn > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Andy Lester > Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:56:02 -0500 > Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress > To: "Chicago.pm chatter" > > > On Sep 19, 2004, at 2:04 PM, Shawn Carroll wrote: > >> Should we forward this to the author? Or get the author on the list? > > Just email Sean directly. I'm sure he'd be interested. Ditto with > Jon's summaries. > > > > -- > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > -- > shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com > Perl Programmer > Soccer Referee > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From thomasoniii at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 08:50:21 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Mon Sep 20 08:50:24 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] error reporting in overridden method In-Reply-To: <86k6upkj1j.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <5cfdfaf70409191435763ae149@mail.gmail.com> <86k6upkj1j.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <5cfdfaf704092006507dd872cd@mail.gmail.com> > This is the source of your problems. If you aren't doing > everything the parent did, you're not properly subclassing. I disagree, there are times when you do not want to do what the parent did. For an extreme example, a placeholder abstract method in the parent that does nothing other than die and say "method not implemented". > Parent->validate1, Parent->validate2, Parent->validate3 ...which is what I suggested in my email. Except, of course, that it would actually be: Parent->some_method turning into Parent->some_method calling: Parent->valid_args_for_some_method, Parent->do_logic_for_some_method And I still dislike that approach because it creates a whole mess of additional methods and generally pollutes up the namespace. I'm not saying it doesn't work, just that I find it aesthetically displeasing. Hence, I was curious if anybody had a more elegant approach. -Jim..... From shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 09:26:34 2004 From: shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com (Shawn Carroll) Date: Mon Sep 20 09:26:47 2004 Subject: Fwd: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: <15436.12.119.251.194.1095686075.squirrel@12.119.251.194> References: <20040919015752.GA29102@petdance.com> <20040919023205.GQ3038@utility> <2df270ef04091822496003e24f@mail.gmail.com> <20040919130612.GR3038@utility> <5DE6CDC2-0A52-11D9-A809-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> <2df270ef040919093953c4c5e3@mail.gmail.com> <15436.12.119.251.194.1095686075.squirrel@12.119.251.194> Message-ID: When I get home this evening, I'll take a look. Also, I took a look at the coverage stats and see that you took out Tree.pm but added pod coverage. Cool on the coverage, but was Tree taken out due to its errors? I will apologize in advance for my commits containing \r\n, I working on windows at home and haven't found how to have my editor (Eclipse) replace them w/ \n --Shawn On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:14:35 -0500 (CDT), jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org wrote: > Also Shawn Carroll. Can you look at your commit for split.t? I get some > warnings on it now. > > Jon > > > > > Sean, > > > > I'm with Chicago.pm and as you know we've started to improve and > > increase the testing of your HTML::Tree package. We think we may have > > found a bug in how HTML::Tree handles nested comments. Please review > > this tread. > > > > --Shawn > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Andy Lester > > Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:56:02 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress > > To: "Chicago.pm chatter" > > > > > > On Sep 19, 2004, at 2:04 PM, Shawn Carroll wrote: > > > >> Should we forward this to the author? Or get the author on the list? > > > > Just email Sean directly. I'm sure he'd be interested. Ditto with > > Jon's summaries. > > > > > > > > -- > > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > > > > -- > > shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com > > Perl Programmer > > Soccer Referee > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com Perl Programmer Soccer Referee From easyasy2k at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 11:08:49 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Mon Sep 20 11:08:55 2004 Subject: Fwd: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: References: <20040919015752.GA29102@petdance.com> <2df270ef04091822496003e24f@mail.gmail.com> <20040919130612.GR3038@utility> <5DE6CDC2-0A52-11D9-A809-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> <2df270ef040919093953c4c5e3@mail.gmail.com> <15436.12.119.251.194.1095686075.squirrel@12.119.251.194> Message-ID: <2df270ef04092009081b7151b7@mail.gmail.com> Do you mean t/tree.t? I don't think anything was taken out, just refactored. On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:26:34 -0500, Shawn Carroll wrote: > When I get home this evening, I'll take a look. Also, I took a look > at the coverage stats and see that you took out Tree.pm but added pod > coverage. > Cool on the coverage, but was Tree taken out due to its errors? > > I will apologize in advance for my commits containing \r\n, I working > on windows at home and haven't found how to have my editor (Eclipse) > replace them w/ \n > > --Shawn > > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:14:35 -0500 (CDT), > > > jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org wrote: > > Also Shawn Carroll. Can you look at your commit for split.t? I get some > > warnings on it now. > > > > Jon > > > > > > > > > Sean, > > > > > > I'm with Chicago.pm and as you know we've started to improve and > > > increase the testing of your HTML::Tree package. We think we may have > > > found a bug in how HTML::Tree handles nested comments. Please review > > > this tread. > > > > > > --Shawn > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > From: Andy Lester > > > Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:56:02 -0500 > > > Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress > > > To: "Chicago.pm chatter" > > > > > > > > > On Sep 19, 2004, at 2:04 PM, Shawn Carroll wrote: > > > > > >> Should we forward this to the author? Or get the author on the list? > > > > > > Just email Sean directly. I'm sure he'd be interested. Ditto with > > > Jon's summaries. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com > > > Perl Programmer > > > Soccer Referee > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > -- > shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com > Perl Programmer > Soccer Referee > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From thomasoniii at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 11:30:37 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Mon Sep 20 11:30:39 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Class::DBI and multiple tables Message-ID: <5cfdfaf7040920093018235bb2@mail.gmail.com> Anybody know if Class::DBI (or one of the Class::DBI::* modules) has support for objects wrapping multiple tables WITH read/write access? I've got an object that cleanly maps to a table, but then I've got a special case of that object that would map to two tables. I could just set it up with a has_a relationship, and have the main object have an instance of a subset object that contains the speciality info, but it just doesn't seem as clean to me. I also think I'd run into some data duplication issues, needing to ensure that changes are made to both the main object and its satellite sub-object with the subclass specific info. So, ideally, I'd just set it up so that my modules wrappers two tables, reads them both in, and then writes back out to both of them when I'm ready for changes. Can it be done? -Jim.... From shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 11:41:57 2004 From: shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com (Shawn Carroll) Date: Mon Sep 20 11:42:00 2004 Subject: Fwd: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: <2df270ef04092009081b7151b7@mail.gmail.com> References: <20040919015752.GA29102@petdance.com> <20040919130612.GR3038@utility> <5DE6CDC2-0A52-11D9-A809-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> <2df270ef040919093953c4c5e3@mail.gmail.com> <15436.12.119.251.194.1095686075.squirrel@12.119.251.194> <2df270ef04092009081b7151b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: No, I know it's being refactored but it isn't on the Coverage stats. On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:08:49 -0500, Leland Johnson wrote: > Do you mean t/tree.t? I don't think anything was taken out, just refactored. > > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:26:34 -0500, Shawn Carroll > > > wrote: > > When I get home this evening, I'll take a look. Also, I took a look > > at the coverage stats and see that you took out Tree.pm but added pod > > coverage. > > Cool on the coverage, but was Tree taken out due to its errors? > > > > I will apologize in advance for my commits containing \r\n, I working > > on windows at home and haven't found how to have my editor (Eclipse) > > replace them w/ \n > > > > --Shawn > > > > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:14:35 -0500 (CDT), > > > > > > jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org wrote: > > > Also Shawn Carroll. Can you look at your commit for split.t? I get some > > > warnings on it now. > > > > > > Jon > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sean, > > > > > > > > I'm with Chicago.pm and as you know we've started to improve and > > > > increase the testing of your HTML::Tree package. We think we may have > > > > found a bug in how HTML::Tree handles nested comments. Please review > > > > this tread. > > > > > > > > --Shawn > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > > From: Andy Lester > > > > Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:56:02 -0500 > > > > Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress > > > > To: "Chicago.pm chatter" > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 19, 2004, at 2:04 PM, Shawn Carroll wrote: > > > > > > > >> Should we forward this to the author? Or get the author on the list? > > > > > > > > Just email Sean directly. I'm sure he'd be interested. Ditto with > > > > Jon's summaries. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com > > > > Perl Programmer > > > > Soccer Referee > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com > > Perl Programmer > > Soccer Referee > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > -- > Leland Johnson > http://protoplasmic.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com Perl Programmer Soccer Referee From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Mon Sep 20 11:45:30 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org) Date: Mon Sep 20 11:45:32 2004 Subject: Fwd: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: <2df270ef04092009081b7151b7@mail.gmail.com> References: <20040919015752.GA29102@petdance.com> <2df270ef04091822496003e24f@mail.gmail.com> <20040919130612.GR3038@utility> <5DE6CDC2-0A52-11D9-A809-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> <2df270ef040919093953c4c5e3@mail.gmail.com> <15436.12.119.251.194.1095686075.squirrel@12.119.251.194> <2df270ef04092009081b7151b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <11518.12.119.251.194.1095698730.squirrel@12.119.251.194> I had a nice long email going... and lost it. :( Here's the short version. I didn't intentionally take anything out. If the test scripts don't hit it then it doesn't get 'covered'. Like AsSubs.pm was before we got some tests for it. I'll verify my checked out repository when I get home tonight and make sure it's working correctly. shouldn't svn be able to take care of line endings? a local script that runs on commit? something like perl -nie 's/\015\012/\012/;print' ? On the other hand I'd recommend vim or emacs for an ide! ;) cygwin has both! Jon PS. The pod was added by me running cpan and installing pod/test/cover modules until it showed up! :) > Do you mean t/tree.t? I don't think anything was taken out, just > refactored. > > > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:26:34 -0500, Shawn Carroll > wrote: >> When I get home this evening, I'll take a look. Also, I took a look >> at the coverage stats and see that you took out Tree.pm but added pod >> coverage. >> Cool on the coverage, but was Tree taken out due to its errors? >> >> I will apologize in advance for my commits containing \r\n, I working >> on windows at home and haven't found how to have my editor (Eclipse) >> replace them w/ \n >> >> --Shawn >> >> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:14:35 -0500 (CDT), >> >> >> jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org wrote: >> > Also Shawn Carroll. Can you look at your commit for split.t? I get >> some >> > warnings on it now. >> > >> > Jon >> > >> > >> > >> > > Sean, >> > > >> > > I'm with Chicago.pm and as you know we've started to improve and >> > > increase the testing of your HTML::Tree package. We think we may >> have >> > > found a bug in how HTML::Tree handles nested comments. Please >> review >> > > this tread. >> > > >> > > --Shawn >> > > >> > > >> > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> > > From: Andy Lester >> > > Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:56:02 -0500 >> > > Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress >> > > To: "Chicago.pm chatter" >> > > >> > > >> > > On Sep 19, 2004, at 2:04 PM, Shawn Carroll wrote: >> > > >> > >> Should we forward this to the author? Or get the author on the >> list? >> > > >> > > Just email Sean directly. I'm sure he'd be interested. Ditto with >> > > Jon's summaries. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Chicago-talk mailing list >> > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >> > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com >> > > Perl Programmer >> > > Soccer Referee >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Chicago-talk mailing list >> > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >> > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Chicago-talk mailing list >> > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk >> > >> >> >> >> >> -- >> shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com >> Perl Programmer >> Soccer Referee >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago-talk mailing list >> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk >> > > > > -- > Leland Johnson > http://protoplasmic.org > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From easyasy2k at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 11:53:11 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Mon Sep 20 11:53:14 2004 Subject: Fwd: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: References: <20040919015752.GA29102@petdance.com> <5DE6CDC2-0A52-11D9-A809-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> <2df270ef040919093953c4c5e3@mail.gmail.com> <15436.12.119.251.194.1095686075.squirrel@12.119.251.194> <2df270ef04092009081b7151b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2df270ef040920095319fdeeca@mail.gmail.com> Well, t/tree.t tests new_from_file and new_from_content, which are the only functions in Tree.pm. The problem is everything is just an alias to TreeBuilder.pm with magic gotos everywhere. I suppose we would have to do stuff like HTML::Tree->new_from_file() to actually test those functions. On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:41:57 -0500, Shawn Carroll wrote: > No, I know it's being refactored but it isn't on the Coverage stats. > > > > > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:08:49 -0500, Leland Johnson wrote: > > Do you mean t/tree.t? I don't think anything was taken out, just refactored. > > > > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:26:34 -0500, Shawn Carroll > > > > > > wrote: > > > When I get home this evening, I'll take a look. Also, I took a look > > > at the coverage stats and see that you took out Tree.pm but added pod > > > coverage. > > > Cool on the coverage, but was Tree taken out due to its errors? > > > > > > I will apologize in advance for my commits containing \r\n, I working > > > on windows at home and haven't found how to have my editor (Eclipse) > > > replace them w/ \n > > > > > > --Shawn > > > > > > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:14:35 -0500 (CDT), > > > > > > > > > jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org wrote: > > > > Also Shawn Carroll. Can you look at your commit for split.t? I get some > > > > warnings on it now. > > > > > > > > Jon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sean, > > > > > > > > > > I'm with Chicago.pm and as you know we've started to improve and > > > > > increase the testing of your HTML::Tree package. We think we may have > > > > > found a bug in how HTML::Tree handles nested comments. Please review > > > > > this tread. > > > > > > > > > > --Shawn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > > > From: Andy Lester > > > > > Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:56:02 -0500 > > > > > Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress > > > > > To: "Chicago.pm chatter" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 19, 2004, at 2:04 PM, Shawn Carroll wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Should we forward this to the author? Or get the author on the list? > > > > > > > > > > Just email Sean directly. I'm sure he'd be interested. Ditto with > > > > > Jon's summaries. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com > > > > > Perl Programmer > > > > > Soccer Referee > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com > > > Perl Programmer > > > Soccer Referee > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > -- > > Leland Johnson > > http://protoplasmic.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > -- > shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com > Perl Programmer > Soccer Referee > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From easyasy2k at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 11:57:32 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Mon Sep 20 11:57:38 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Wiki Updates Message-ID: <2df270ef04092009573fe09b8e@mail.gmail.com> I have updated the wiki now with some things. I still haven't made a page for the "Extreme Programming Piranha" group and what we did. I think Jon said that we would be meeting again, so that should go on the page too, along with whatever name we want. I will try to get that page up soon, but I have to actually do some school stuff right now. http://phalanx.kwiki.org/index.cgi?ChicagoStatus I've also added a page for the problem with nested comments. http://phalanx.kwiki.org/index.cgi?HTMLTreeNestedComments -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Mon Sep 20 11:59:00 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org) Date: Mon Sep 20 11:59:02 2004 Subject: Fwd: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: <2df270ef040920095319fdeeca@mail.gmail.com> References: <20040919015752.GA29102@petdance.com> <5DE6CDC2-0A52-11D9-A809-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> <2df270ef040919093953c4c5e3@mail.gmail.com> <15436.12.119.251.194.1095686075.squirrel@12.119.251.194> <2df270ef04092009081b7151b7@mail.gmail.com> <2df270ef040920095319fdeeca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <15558.12.119.251.194.1095699540.squirrel@12.119.251.194> That's how we were doing it. I think my checked out copy was hacked up while I was trying to track down the reason the nested comments are failing. I'll change my coverage script tonight to go against a seperate checked out copy that I'm not working in. > Well, t/tree.t tests new_from_file and new_from_content, which are the > only functions in Tree.pm. The problem is everything is just an alias > to TreeBuilder.pm with magic gotos everywhere. I suppose we would have > to do stuff like HTML::Tree->new_from_file() to actually test those > functions. > > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:41:57 -0500, Shawn Carroll > wrote: >> No, I know it's being refactored but it isn't on the Coverage stats. >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:08:49 -0500, Leland Johnson >> wrote: >> > Do you mean t/tree.t? I don't think anything was taken out, just >> refactored. >> > >> > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:26:34 -0500, Shawn Carroll >> > >> > >> > wrote: >> > > When I get home this evening, I'll take a look. Also, I took a look >> > > at the coverage stats and see that you took out Tree.pm but added >> pod >> > > coverage. >> > > Cool on the coverage, but was Tree taken out due to its errors? >> > > >> > > I will apologize in advance for my commits containing \r\n, I >> working >> > > on windows at home and haven't found how to have my editor (Eclipse) >> > > replace them w/ \n >> > > >> > > --Shawn >> > > >> > > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:14:35 -0500 (CDT), >> > > >> > > >> > > jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org >> wrote: >> > > > Also Shawn Carroll. Can you look at your commit for split.t? I >> get some >> > > > warnings on it now. >> > > > >> > > > Jon >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Sean, >> > > > > >> > > > > I'm with Chicago.pm and as you know we've started to improve and >> > > > > increase the testing of your HTML::Tree package. We think we >> may have >> > > > > found a bug in how HTML::Tree handles nested comments. Please >> review >> > > > > this tread. >> > > > > >> > > > > --Shawn >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> > > > > From: Andy Lester >> > > > > Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:56:02 -0500 >> > > > > Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress >> > > > > To: "Chicago.pm chatter" >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > On Sep 19, 2004, at 2:04 PM, Shawn Carroll wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > >> Should we forward this to the author? Or get the author on the >> list? >> > > > > >> > > > > Just email Sean directly. I'm sure he'd be interested. Ditto >> with >> > > > > Jon's summaries. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > -- >> > > > > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => >> AIM:petdance >> > > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > > Chicago-talk mailing list >> > > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >> > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > -- >> > > > > shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com >> > > > > Perl Programmer >> > > > > Soccer Referee >> > > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > > Chicago-talk mailing list >> > > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >> > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > Chicago-talk mailing list >> > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >> > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com >> > > Perl Programmer >> > > Soccer Referee >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Chicago-talk mailing list >> > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >> > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk >> > > >> > >> > -- >> > Leland Johnson >> > http://protoplasmic.org >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> >> > Chicago-talk mailing list >> > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk >> > >> >> -- >> shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com >> Perl Programmer >> Soccer Referee >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago-talk mailing list >> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk >> > > > > -- > Leland Johnson > http://protoplasmic.org > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From easyasy2k at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 12:00:42 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Mon Sep 20 12:00:48 2004 Subject: Fwd: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: <15558.12.119.251.194.1095699540.squirrel@12.119.251.194> References: <20040919015752.GA29102@petdance.com> <15436.12.119.251.194.1095686075.squirrel@12.119.251.194> <2df270ef04092009081b7151b7@mail.gmail.com> <2df270ef040920095319fdeeca@mail.gmail.com> <15558.12.119.251.194.1095699540.squirrel@12.119.251.194> Message-ID: <2df270ef04092010006e0e7571@mail.gmail.com> Sounds great. Make sure to update the wiki. On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:59:00 -0500 (CDT), jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org wrote: > That's how we were doing it. I think my checked out copy was hacked up > while I was trying to track down the reason the nested comments are > failing. I'll change my coverage script tonight to go against a seperate > checked out copy that I'm not working in. > > > > > Well, t/tree.t tests new_from_file and new_from_content, which are the > > only functions in Tree.pm. The problem is everything is just an alias > > to TreeBuilder.pm with magic gotos everywhere. I suppose we would have > > to do stuff like HTML::Tree->new_from_file() to actually test those > > functions. > > > > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:41:57 -0500, Shawn Carroll > > wrote: > >> No, I know it's being refactored but it isn't on the Coverage stats. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:08:49 -0500, Leland Johnson > >> wrote: > >> > Do you mean t/tree.t? I don't think anything was taken out, just > >> refactored. > >> > > >> > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:26:34 -0500, Shawn Carroll > >> > > >> > > >> > wrote: > >> > > When I get home this evening, I'll take a look. Also, I took a look > >> > > at the coverage stats and see that you took out Tree.pm but added > >> pod > >> > > coverage. > >> > > Cool on the coverage, but was Tree taken out due to its errors? > >> > > > >> > > I will apologize in advance for my commits containing \r\n, I > >> working > >> > > on windows at home and haven't found how to have my editor (Eclipse) > >> > > replace them w/ \n > >> > > > >> > > --Shawn > >> > > > >> > > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:14:35 -0500 (CDT), > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org > >> wrote: > >> > > > Also Shawn Carroll. Can you look at your commit for split.t? I > >> get some > >> > > > warnings on it now. > >> > > > > >> > > > Jon > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Sean, > >> > > > > > >> > > > > I'm with Chicago.pm and as you know we've started to improve and > >> > > > > increase the testing of your HTML::Tree package. We think we > >> may have > >> > > > > found a bug in how HTML::Tree handles nested comments. Please > >> review > >> > > > > this tread. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > --Shawn > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >> > > > > From: Andy Lester > >> > > > > Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:56:02 -0500 > >> > > > > Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress > >> > > > > To: "Chicago.pm chatter" > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > On Sep 19, 2004, at 2:04 PM, Shawn Carroll wrote: > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> Should we forward this to the author? Or get the author on the > >> list? > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Just email Sean directly. I'm sure he'd be interested. Ditto > >> with > >> > > > > Jon's summaries. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > -- > >> > > > > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => > >> AIM:petdance > >> > > > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > >> > > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > >> > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > -- > >> > > > > shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com > >> > > > > Perl Programmer > >> > > > > Soccer Referee > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > >> > > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > >> > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > >> > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > >> > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > -- > >> > > shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com > >> > > Perl Programmer > >> > > Soccer Referee > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > Chicago-talk mailing list > >> > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > >> > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > >> > > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Leland Johnson > >> > http://protoplasmic.org > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > >> > >> > Chicago-talk mailing list > >> > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > >> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com > >> Perl Programmer > >> Soccer Referee > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Chicago-talk mailing list > >> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Leland Johnson > > http://protoplasmic.org > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Mon Sep 20 19:54:52 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (Jon Amundsen) Date: Mon Sep 20 19:54:57 2004 Subject: Fwd: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: <2df270ef04092010006e0e7571@mail.gmail.com> References: <15436.12.119.251.194.1095686075.squirrel@12.119.251.194> <2df270ef04092009081b7151b7@mail.gmail.com> <2df270ef040920095319fdeeca@mail.gmail.com> <15558.12.119.251.194.1095699540.squirrel@12.119.251.194> <2df270ef04092010006e0e7571@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040921005452.GC687@utility> Ok... The coverage at http://jamundsen.dyndns.org/phalanx/ should now be correct. It is running against a seperate copy of the tree that is updated before each run(which is daily @ midnight, or whenever I run it manually). On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 12:00:42PM -0500, Leland Johnson wrote: > Sounds great. Make sure to update the wiki. > > > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:59:00 -0500 (CDT), > jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org wrote: > > That's how we were doing it. I think my checked out copy was hacked up > > while I was trying to track down the reason the nested comments are > > failing. I'll change my coverage script tonight to go against a seperate > > checked out copy that I'm not working in. > > > > > > > > > Well, t/tree.t tests new_from_file and new_from_content, which are the > > > only functions in Tree.pm. The problem is everything is just an alias > > > to TreeBuilder.pm with magic gotos everywhere. I suppose we would have > > > to do stuff like HTML::Tree->new_from_file() to actually test those > > > functions. > > > > > > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:41:57 -0500, Shawn Carroll > > > wrote: > > >> No, I know it's being refactored but it isn't on the Coverage stats. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:08:49 -0500, Leland Johnson > > >> wrote: > > >> > Do you mean t/tree.t? I don't think anything was taken out, just > > >> refactored. > > >> > > > >> > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:26:34 -0500, Shawn Carroll > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > When I get home this evening, I'll take a look. Also, I took a look > > >> > > at the coverage stats and see that you took out Tree.pm but added > > >> pod > > >> > > coverage. > > >> > > Cool on the coverage, but was Tree taken out due to its errors? > > >> > > > > >> > > I will apologize in advance for my commits containing \r\n, I > > >> working > > >> > > on windows at home and haven't found how to have my editor (Eclipse) > > >> > > replace them w/ \n > > >> > > > > >> > > --Shawn > > >> > > > > >> > > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:14:35 -0500 (CDT), > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > Also Shawn Carroll. Can you look at your commit for split.t? I > > >> get some > > >> > > > warnings on it now. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Jon > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Sean, > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > I'm with Chicago.pm and as you know we've started to improve and > > >> > > > > increase the testing of your HTML::Tree package. We think we > > >> may have > > >> > > > > found a bug in how HTML::Tree handles nested comments. Please > > >> review > > >> > > > > this tread. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > --Shawn > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > >> > > > > From: Andy Lester > > >> > > > > Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:56:02 -0500 > > >> > > > > Subject: Re: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress > > >> > > > > To: "Chicago.pm chatter" > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > On Sep 19, 2004, at 2:04 PM, Shawn Carroll wrote: > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >> Should we forward this to the author? Or get the author on the > > >> list? > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Just email Sean directly. I'm sure he'd be interested. Ditto > > >> with > > >> > > > > Jon's summaries. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > -- > > >> > > > > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => > > >> AIM:petdance > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > >> > > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > >> > > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > >> > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > -- > > >> > > > > shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com > > >> > > > > Perl Programmer > > >> > > > > Soccer Referee > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > >> > > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > >> > > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > >> > > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > >> > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > >> > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > >> > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > -- > > >> > > shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com > > >> > > Perl Programmer > > >> > > Soccer Referee > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > >> > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > >> > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > >> > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > -- > > >> > Leland Johnson > > >> > http://protoplasmic.org > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > > >> > > >> > Chicago-talk mailing list > > >> > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > >> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > >> > > > >> > > >> -- > > >> shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com > > >> Perl Programmer > > >> Soccer Referee > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Chicago-talk mailing list > > >> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Leland Johnson > > > http://protoplasmic.org > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > -- > Leland Johnson > http://protoplasmic.org > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk -- Jon Amundsen jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. -- Mahatma Gandhi -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20040920/778e8ada/attachment.bin From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Mon Sep 20 20:09:12 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (Jon Amundsen) Date: Mon Sep 20 20:09:16 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] eXtreme Piranha's or Chicago PM Mascot Message-ID: <20040921010912.GD687@utility> Hi Everyone! As you may have picked up from some of the other posts to the list, some of us got together last Saturday for what will hopefully be the first of many eXtreme Piranha programming sessions. I'd like to put forth the idea that the Chicago Perl Mongers group adopt the 'piranha' as a mascot. If there is general consensus then maybe one of the artistic 'Mac' people in the group could do a graphic or 2 that we could vote on for a logo. Something on the order of the openbsd blowfish? For those who aren't familiar with the piranha here's a link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piranha. -- Jon Amundsen jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. -- Mahatma Gandhi -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20040920/7e96db00/attachment.bin From jason at multiply.org Mon Sep 20 16:53:08 2004 From: jason at multiply.org (jason scott gessner) Date: Mon Sep 20 21:52:31 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] October Presentation: The Mighty Mason, or Another Brick in the Wall In-Reply-To: <3096c19d040909134969e6d092@mail.gmail.com> References: <20040906180812.GA16931@chloe.inkdroid.org> <4B683B97-0032-11D9-AABE-000A956859A6@pobox.com> <3096c19d040909134969e6d092@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1095717188.25187.7.camel@localhost> The Mighty Mason, or Another Brick in the Wall What is Mason? The secretive cult that rules the world? How about the web application framework that will rock your world? HTML::Mason [1] is the web application framework behind Bricolage [2], Amazon and Salon.com [3] to drop a few names. On Wednesday, October 6th, i will be presenting a talk on Mason at the Chicago Perl Mongers meeting. The meeting will not be at our normal location in Vernon Hills. It will be at the Grayslake Public Library [4], north of Chicago, at 7PM. Thanks to JT, we have what sounds like a great place to meet. Please be punctual as we will need to be packed up by 8:45. The talk will focus on HTML::Mason and show a practical example on how to take an existing CGI based web application and convert it to efficiently use (some of) the power of Mason. I will have code samples and the presentation slides posted here by Tuesday, October 5th. Basic Outline: * What is HTML::Mason? * How do i use it? * Installation * Basic Syntax * Express Yourself. * Why do i need to use some fancy framework? * Re-use/Don't Repeat Yourself * Make the simple things simple, and hard things possible. * Mason tips * The Autohandler * The dhandler * Components * A practical example. If anyone has anything specific they would like me to talk about, please let me know. [1] Mason Headquarters - http://www.masonhq.com/ [2] Bricolage Content Management System - http://www.bricolage.cc/ [3] Salon Magazine - http://www.salon.com/ [4] Grayslake Public Library - http://www.google.com/local?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&client=firefox-a&q=public+library&near=Grayslake,+IL&oi=locald&radius=0.0&latlng=42344444,-88041666,9447143882481584293"> -jason scott gessner jason@multiply.org From shild at sbcglobal.net Tue Sep 21 08:33:36 2004 From: shild at sbcglobal.net (Scott T. Hildreth) Date: Tue Sep 21 08:32:31 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] October Presentation: The Mighty Mason, or Another Brick in the Wall In-Reply-To: <1095717188.25187.7.camel@localhost> References: <20040906180812.GA16931@chloe.inkdroid.org> <4B683B97-0032-11D9-AABE-000A956859A6@pobox.com> <3096c19d040909134969e6d092@mail.gmail.com> <1095717188.25187.7.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1095773616.410.52.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2004-09-20 at 16:53, jason scott gessner wrote: > The Mighty Mason, or Another Brick in the Wall > > What is Mason? The secretive cult that rules the world? How about the > web application framework that will rock your world? > > HTML::Mason [1] is the web application framework behind Bricolage [2], > Amazon and Salon.com [3] to drop a few names. And Request Tracker.... to drop another name. > > On Wednesday, October 6th, i will be presenting a talk on Mason at the > Chicago Perl Mongers meeting. The meeting will not be at our normal > location in Vernon Hills. It will be at the Grayslake Public Library > [4], north of Chicago, at 7PM. Thanks to JT, we have what sounds like a > great place to meet. Please be punctual as we will need to be packed up > by 8:45. > > The talk will focus on HTML::Mason and show a practical example on how > to take an existing CGI based web application and convert it to > efficiently use (some of) the power of Mason. I will have code samples > and the presentation slides posted here by Tuesday, October 5th. > > Basic Outline: > * What is HTML::Mason? > * How do i use it? > * Installation > * Basic Syntax > * Express Yourself. > * Why do i need to use some fancy framework? > * Re-use/Don't Repeat Yourself > * Make the simple things simple, and hard things possible. > * Mason tips > * The Autohandler > * The dhandler > * Components > * A practical example. > > If anyone has anything specific they would like me to talk about, please > let me know. > > [1] Mason Headquarters - http://www.masonhq.com/ > [2] Bricolage Content Management System - http://www.bricolage.cc/ > [3] Salon Magazine - http://www.salon.com/ > [4] Grayslake Public Library - > http://www.google.com/local?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&client=firefox-a&q=public+library&near=Grayslake,+IL&oi=locald&radius=0.0&latlng=42344444,-88041666,9447143882481584293"> > > > -jason scott gessner > jason@multiply.org > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk From jason at multiply.org Tue Sep 21 09:10:45 2004 From: jason at multiply.org (jason@multiply.org) Date: Tue Sep 21 09:10:57 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] October Presentation: The Mighty Mason, or Another Brick in the Wall In-Reply-To: <1095773616.410.52.camel@localhost> References: <20040906180812.GA16931@chloe.inkdroid.org> <4B683B97-0032-11D9-AABE-000A956859A6@pobox.com> <3096c19d040909134969e6d092@mail.gmail.com> <1095717188.25187.7.camel@localhost> <1095773616.410.52.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1095775845.41503665ee669@manage.multiply.org> > And Request Tracker.... to drop another name. Thanks! I forgot that one. -jason ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From lembark at wrkhors.com Tue Sep 21 15:26:22 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Tue Sep 21 15:26:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] error reporting in overridden method In-Reply-To: <5cfdfaf70409191435763ae149@mail.gmail.com> References: <5cfdfaf70409191435763ae149@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <38417798B183722133CD08B7@duke.wrkhors.com> > Okay, I have a class that has a method. All in all, probably a good thing. > but code duplication is bad. Take the base class and split out the validation: my $result= eval { $obj->execute_foo(@stuff) } or die "Unhandled exception in Foo: $@"; package Foo; sub validate_foo { ... die "Bogus valiate foo: bar is not given" unless $argz->{bar}; ... } sub execute_foo { $_->[0]->validate_foo; ... } package MoreFoo; use base qw( Foo ); sub execute_foo { $_->[0]->validate_foo; ... } -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From lembark at wrkhors.com Tue Sep 21 15:28:07 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Tue Sep 21 15:28:27 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] error reporting in overridden method In-Reply-To: <86k6upkj1j.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <5cfdfaf70409191435763ae149@mail.gmail.com> <86k6upkj1j.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <04F64992F9D8E17B168CD78F@duke.wrkhors.com> -- "Randal L. Schwartz" >>>>>> "Jim" == Jim Thomason writes: > > Jim> Anyway, I subclassed it and overrode the method, > > This is the source of your problems. If you aren't doing > everything the parent did, you're not properly subclassing. > > If you can't call SUPER, you should refactor the parent method so that > it provides parts you *can* call, and skip the parts you *can't* call. > > So, instead of > > Parent->validate > > being standalone, we get > > Parent->validate > > that calls > > Parent->validate1, Parent->validate2, Parent->validate3 > > and then in the kid, we override as That or have them each deal with their own portion of it and use NEXT to pass the validation along to base classes. Note: shortcomming to SUPER for this is that it croaks if the parent class doesn't provide a method. NEXT will search through more derived classes to locate the method. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Wed Sep 22 18:53:27 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (Jon Amundsen) Date: Wed Sep 22 18:53:31 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree dependencies Message-ID: <20040922235327.GG687@utility> Hi Everyone! I would like to propose that Chicago-PM take on the dependencies of HTML::TreeBuilder as part of our phalanx adopt a module project. HTML::Parser and HTML::Tagset are both high on the phalanx 100. Sean Burke is also the author of HTML::Tagset. Since my last suggestion(piranha mascot) went over like a lead balloon I'm hoping someone responds to this. Andy, if there is general aggreement can you coordinate? I'd be happy to help although the backend process(svn, etc...) doesn't seem to be documented... Let me know what I can do. -- Jon Amundsen jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. -- Mahatma Gandhi -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20040922/9b9e7934/attachment.bin From andy at petdance.com Wed Sep 22 19:29:40 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Wed Sep 22 19:29:40 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree dependencies In-Reply-To: <20040922235327.GG687@utility> References: <20040922235327.GG687@utility> Message-ID: > I would like to propose that Chicago-PM take on the dependencies of > HTML::TreeBuilder as part of our phalanx adopt a module project. > HTML::Parser and HTML::Tagset are both high on the phalanx 100. Sean > Burke is also the author of HTML::Tagset. Sounds good to me. However, I'd first see if Sean likes what you've done so far. I suggest you send him patches, or a tarball, so he can see what you've done. > Since my last suggestion(piranha mascot) went over like a lead balloon I think it's a fine idea. I just didn't have anything to say. xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Wed Sep 22 21:54:09 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (Jon Amundsen) Date: Wed Sep 22 21:54:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Chicago Status Kwiki Message-ID: <20040923025409.GI687@utility> Hi All, I have done some pretty serious rework on ChicagoStatus page on the kwiki. However, there wasn't/isn't much detail on who's done what so far. If you have an accomplishment related to our adopted cpan module HTML::TreeBuilder please go ahead and add a line or two! -- Jon Amundsen jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. -- Mahatma Gandhi -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20040922/a5301b74/attachment.bin From easyasy2k at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 22:21:07 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Wed Sep 22 22:21:12 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Chicago Status Kwiki In-Reply-To: <20040923025409.GI687@utility> References: <20040923025409.GI687@utility> Message-ID: <2df270ef040922202160111d9e@mail.gmail.com> Looks good. Too bad I haven't accomplished anything other than talking to various people. On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:54:09 -0500, Jon Amundsen wrote: > Hi All, > > I have done some pretty serious rework on ChicagoStatus page on the kwiki. However, there wasn't/isn't much detail on who's done what so far. If you have an accomplishment related to our adopted cpan module HTML::TreeBuilder please go ahead and add a line or two! > > -- > > Jon Amundsen > jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org > > A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a > "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. > -- Mahatma Gandhi > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Wed Sep 22 22:29:14 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (Jon Amundsen) Date: Wed Sep 22 22:29:20 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Chicago Status Kwiki In-Reply-To: <2df270ef040922202160111d9e@mail.gmail.com> References: <20040923025409.GI687@utility> <2df270ef040922202160111d9e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040923032914.GJ687@utility> Sign up for something! ;) And you may want to choose something besides POD. There's alot of doc for this module, it's just not in a form that cover picks up. Unless of course you have ideas on how tochange that! On Wed, Sep 22, 2004 at 10:21:07PM -0500, Leland Johnson wrote: > Looks good. Too bad I haven't accomplished anything other than talking > to various people. > > > On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:54:09 -0500, Jon Amundsen > wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > I have done some pretty serious rework on ChicagoStatus page on the kwiki. However, there wasn't/isn't much detail on who's done what so far. If you have an accomplishment related to our adopted cpan module HTML::TreeBuilder please go ahead and add a line or two! > > > > -- > > > > Jon Amundsen > > jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org > > > > A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a > > "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. > > -- Mahatma Gandhi > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Leland Johnson > http://protoplasmic.org > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk -- Jon Amundsen jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. -- Mahatma Gandhi -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20040922/f145cf36/attachment.bin From easyasy2k at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 22:43:14 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Wed Sep 22 22:43:18 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree dependencies In-Reply-To: <20040922235327.GG687@utility> References: <20040922235327.GG687@utility> Message-ID: <2df270ef04092220432be38e8a@mail.gmail.com> Sounds like a good idea. I'm pretty sure that Sean would be open to us working on HTML::Tagset. HTML::Parser is an entirely different issue. We should be able to talk to the author (Gisle Aas) pretty easily, since Sean said he was going to talk to him about http://phalanx.kwiki.org/index.cgi?HTMLTreeNestedComments However, HTML::Parser contains C code and has 42 test files as it is. That said, it adds up to 85% coverage as of 3.36, so that's not too bad. (though it did through some warnings on malformed unicode character on my powerbook just now). The other modules actually seem like adding tests wouldn't be an absurdly hard task. HTML::Entities and HTML::PullParser are the least tested modules in the distribution and a few simple (looking) sub could be covered easily I think. Of, and the piranha idea is great, but getting a picture would be hard. This isn't Perl Mongers and Graphic Designers. At least, I don't think so. On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 18:53:27 -0500, Jon Amundsen wrote: > Hi Everyone! > > I would like to propose that Chicago-PM take on the dependencies of HTML::TreeBuilder as part of our phalanx adopt a module project. HTML::Parser and HTML::Tagset are both high on the phalanx 100. Sean Burke is also the author of HTML::Tagset. > > Since my last suggestion(piranha mascot) went over like a lead balloon I'm hoping someone responds to this. Andy, if there is general aggreement can you coordinate? I'd be happy to help although the backend process(svn, etc...) doesn't seem to be documented... Let me know what I can do. > > -- > > Jon Amundsen > jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org > > A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a > "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. > -- Mahatma Gandhi > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From easyasy2k at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 22:44:43 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Wed Sep 22 22:44:52 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Chicago Status Kwiki In-Reply-To: <20040923032914.GJ687@utility> References: <20040923025409.GI687@utility> <2df270ef040922202160111d9e@mail.gmail.com> <20040923032914.GJ687@utility> Message-ID: <2df270ef040922204450af382b@mail.gmail.com> Yeh, I should really move that down to the todo list and off my back. Right now though, I need to get to sleep. On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:29:14 -0500, Jon Amundsen wrote: > Sign up for something! ;) And you may want to choose something besides POD. There's alot of doc for this module, it's just not in a form that cover picks up. Unless of course you have ideas on how tochange that! > > > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2004 at 10:21:07PM -0500, Leland Johnson wrote: > > Looks good. Too bad I haven't accomplished anything other than talking > > to various people. > > > > > > On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:54:09 -0500, Jon Amundsen > > wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > > > I have done some pretty serious rework on ChicagoStatus page on the kwiki. However, there wasn't/isn't much detail on who's done what so far. If you have an accomplishment related to our adopted cpan module HTML::TreeBuilder please go ahead and add a line or two! > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Jon Amundsen > > > jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org > > > > > > A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a > > > "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. > > > -- Mahatma Gandhi > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Leland Johnson > > http://protoplasmic.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > -- > > > > Jon Amundsen > jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org > > A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a > "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. > -- Mahatma Gandhi > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Wed Sep 22 23:03:08 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (Jon Amundsen) Date: Wed Sep 22 23:03:12 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree dependencies In-Reply-To: <2df270ef04092220432be38e8a@mail.gmail.com> References: <20040922235327.GG687@utility> <2df270ef04092220432be38e8a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040923040308.GL687@utility> I've dropped a line to the London PM as they had some discussion about adopting HTML::Parser. Just wanted to make sure we didn't step on their toes. On another note... I added some POD to AsSubs.pm and made a change as to where the generated code gets eval'd. Same number of subroutines, same number of tests. Just more pod. The Total Coverage has gone up for that module, but the pod column still says 0.0??? Anyone have any ideas? And I'm glad some people liked the Piranha mascot idea. I thought my lead balloon comment may generate the discussion that didn't happen last time! ;) I'll ask around to see if I can find someone to do a logo. I did think with all the Apple/Mac users we had there would be one artist in the group though! :) On Wed, Sep 22, 2004 at 10:43:14PM -0500, Leland Johnson wrote: > Sounds like a good idea. I'm pretty sure that Sean would be open to us > working on HTML::Tagset. HTML::Parser is an entirely different issue. > > We should be able to talk to the author (Gisle Aas) pretty easily, > since Sean said he was going to talk to him about > http://phalanx.kwiki.org/index.cgi?HTMLTreeNestedComments > > However, HTML::Parser contains C code and has 42 test files as it is. > That said, it adds up to 85% coverage as of 3.36, so that's not too > bad. (though it did through some warnings on malformed unicode > character on my powerbook just now). The other modules actually seem > like adding tests wouldn't be an absurdly hard task. > > HTML::Entities and HTML::PullParser are the least tested modules in > the distribution and a few simple (looking) sub could be covered > easily I think. > > > Of, and the piranha idea is great, but getting a picture would be > hard. This isn't Perl Mongers and Graphic Designers. At least, I don't > think so. > > On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 18:53:27 -0500, Jon Amundsen > wrote: > > Hi Everyone! > > > > I would like to propose that Chicago-PM take on the dependencies of HTML::TreeBuilder as part of our phalanx adopt a module project. HTML::Parser and HTML::Tagset are both high on the phalanx 100. Sean Burke is also the author of HTML::Tagset. > > > > Since my last suggestion(piranha mascot) went over like a lead balloon I'm hoping someone responds to this. Andy, if there is general aggreement can you coordinate? I'd be happy to help although the backend process(svn, etc...) doesn't seem to be documented... Let me know what I can do. > > > > -- > > > > Jon Amundsen > > jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org > > > > A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a > > "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. > > -- Mahatma Gandhi > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Leland Johnson > http://protoplasmic.org > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk -- Jon Amundsen jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. -- Mahatma Gandhi -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20040922/09eda3e6/attachment.bin From easyasy2k at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 23:10:33 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Wed Sep 22 23:10:51 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree dependencies In-Reply-To: <20040923040308.GL687@utility> References: <20040922235327.GG687@utility> <2df270ef04092220432be38e8a@mail.gmail.com> <20040923040308.GL687@utility> Message-ID: <2df270ef040922211042d084dd@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:03:08 -0500, Jon Amundsen wrote: > I've dropped a line to the London PM as they had some discussion about adopting HTML::Parser. Just wanted to make sure we didn't step on their toes. > > On another note... I added some POD to AsSubs.pm and made a change as to where the generated code gets eval'd. Same number of subroutines, same number of tests. Just more pod. The Total Coverage has gone up for that module, but the pod column still says 0.0??? Anyone have any ideas? > I don't even see a pod column over here. CPANPLUS says Test::POD and Devel::Cover are at the latest versions too... > And I'm glad some people liked the Piranha mascot idea. I thought my lead balloon comment may generate the discussion that didn't happen last time! ;) I'll ask around to see if I can find someone to do a logo. I did think with all the Apple/Mac users we had there would be one artist in the group though! :) > I wouldn't count on it. I'm pretty sure all the mac users at chicago.pm switched at osx, not earlier. A lead balloon might be a good mascot. I thought it would be ironic to measure how much test coverage has increased by how much longer the suite takes to run. > > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2004 at 10:43:14PM -0500, Leland Johnson wrote: > > Sounds like a good idea. I'm pretty sure that Sean would be open to us > > working on HTML::Tagset. HTML::Parser is an entirely different issue. > > > > We should be able to talk to the author (Gisle Aas) pretty easily, > > since Sean said he was going to talk to him about > > http://phalanx.kwiki.org/index.cgi?HTMLTreeNestedComments > > > > However, HTML::Parser contains C code and has 42 test files as it is. > > That said, it adds up to 85% coverage as of 3.36, so that's not too > > bad. (though it did through some warnings on malformed unicode > > character on my powerbook just now). The other modules actually seem > > like adding tests wouldn't be an absurdly hard task. > > > > HTML::Entities and HTML::PullParser are the least tested modules in > > the distribution and a few simple (looking) sub could be covered > > easily I think. > > > > > > Of, and the piranha idea is great, but getting a picture would be > > hard. This isn't Perl Mongers and Graphic Designers. At least, I don't > > think so. > > > > On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 18:53:27 -0500, Jon Amundsen > > wrote: > > > Hi Everyone! > > > > > > I would like to propose that Chicago-PM take on the dependencies of HTML::TreeBuilder as part of our phalanx adopt a module project. HTML::Parser and HTML::Tagset are both high on the phalanx 100. Sean Burke is also the author of HTML::Tagset. > > > > > > Since my last suggestion(piranha mascot) went over like a lead balloon I'm hoping someone responds to this. Andy, if there is general aggreement can you coordinate? I'd be happy to help although the backend process(svn, etc...) doesn't seem to be documented... Let me know what I can do. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Jon Amundsen > > > jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org > > > > > > A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a > > > "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. > > > -- Mahatma Gandhi > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Leland Johnson > > http://protoplasmic.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > -- > > > > Jon Amundsen > jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org > > A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a > "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. > -- Mahatma Gandhi > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From andy at petdance.com Wed Sep 22 23:18:34 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Wed Sep 22 23:18:36 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree dependencies In-Reply-To: <20040923040308.GL687@utility> References: <20040922235327.GG687@utility> <2df270ef04092220432be38e8a@mail.gmail.com> <20040923040308.GL687@utility> Message-ID: On Sep 22, 2004, at 11:03 PM, Jon Amundsen wrote: > I've dropped a line to the London PM as they had some discussion about > adopting HTML::Parser. Just wanted to make sure we didn't step on > their toes. Or we all work on it together... -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Thu Sep 23 07:06:26 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org) Date: Thu Sep 23 07:06:29 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree dependencies In-Reply-To: References: <20040922235327.GG687@utility> <2df270ef04092220432be38e8a@mail.gmail.com> <20040923040308.GL687@utility> Message-ID: <46849.12.119.251.194.1095941186.squirrel@12.119.251.194> Yeah... I included that option in my email to Mark. :) Sometimes a little friendly competition can motivate people too. ;) > > On Sep 22, 2004, at 11:03 PM, Jon Amundsen wrote: > >> I've dropped a line to the London PM as they had some discussion about >> adopting HTML::Parser. Just wanted to make sure we didn't step on >> their toes. > > Or we all work on it together... > > -- > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From gdf at speakeasy.net Thu Sep 23 09:08:42 2004 From: gdf at speakeasy.net (Greg Fast) Date: Thu Sep 23 09:08:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree dependencies In-Reply-To: <2df270ef040922211042d084dd@mail.gmail.com> References: <2df270ef040922211042d084dd@mail.gmail.com> <20040922235327.GG687@utility> <2df270ef04092220432be38e8a@mail.gmail.com> <20040923040308.GL687@utility> Message-ID: <200409231408.i8NE8hJe024427@www.pm.org> On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:10:33 -0500, Leland Johnson wrote: > I wouldn't count on it. I'm pretty sure all the mac users at > chicago.pm switched at osx, not earlier. > A lead balloon might be a good mascot. Ok: Lame submission #1! -- Greg Fast http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pirhana.png Type: image/png Size: 16067 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/chicago-talk/attachments/20040923/734f7f7e/pirhana.png From thomasoniii at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 09:32:55 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Thu Sep 23 09:33:08 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree dependencies In-Reply-To: <2df270ef040922211042d084dd@mail.gmail.com> References: <20040922235327.GG687@utility> <2df270ef04092220432be38e8a@mail.gmail.com> <20040923040308.GL687@utility> <2df270ef040922211042d084dd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5cfdfaf704092307321723a949@mail.gmail.com> > I wouldn't count on it. I'm pretty sure all the mac users at > chicago.pm switched at osx, not earlier. Switched? I've never switched to anything from anything, I've always been a Macintosh user. Going all the way back to System 7.1.2 for me (unless you count the Mac Plus I got later on a whim (it was free!) that runs 6 when I turn it on, or System 1 when I dig out the old floppies to show it off to people. I've owned a total of 9 computers now, and they've all been Macintoshes. So there's at least one died-in-the-wool Mac user here. -Jim... From chris.mcavoy at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 12:34:22 2004 From: chris.mcavoy at gmail.com (Chris McAvoy) Date: Thu Sep 23 12:34:28 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] eXtreme Piranha's or Chicago PM Mascot In-Reply-To: <20040921010912.GD687@utility> References: <20040921010912.GD687@utility> Message-ID: <3096c19d04092310344ab75997@mail.gmail.com> What did you folks work on? Chris On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:09:12 -0500, Jon Amundsen wrote: > Hi Everyone! > > As you may have picked up from some of the other posts to the list, some of us got together last Saturday for what will hopefully be the first of many eXtreme Piranha programming sessions. I'd like to put forth the idea that the Chicago Perl Mongers group adopt the 'piranha' as a mascot. If there is general consensus then maybe one of the artistic 'Mac' people in the group could do a graphic or 2 that we could vote on for a logo. Something on the order of the openbsd blowfish? > > For those who aren't familiar with the piranha here's a link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piranha. > > -- > > Jon Amundsen > jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org > > A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a > "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. > -- Mahatma Gandhi > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > -- Chris From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Thu Sep 23 14:26:20 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org) Date: Thu Sep 23 14:26:22 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] eXtreme Piranha's or Chicago PM Mascot In-Reply-To: <3096c19d04092310344ab75997@mail.gmail.com> References: <20040921010912.GD687@utility> <3096c19d04092310344ab75997@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42647.12.119.251.194.1095967580.squirrel@12.119.251.194> There's a brief summary on the list here already, but basically we looked at our adopted module HTML::TreeBuilder. Increased the test coverage, and refactored some of the tests. There were 4 people who showed up and I am planning on trying for a monthly meetup. The middle of the month so we aren't too close to the regular meetings. I think the next time we meet we are likely to accomplish much more. It took us a little while to get organized, and get everyone on the same page. Also besides working on Chicago PM eXtreme Piranha projects, if anyone shows up and has questions on something that they are working on personally I'm sure someone would be willing to break off and help if it's cool! ;) Jon > What did you folks work on? > > Chris > > > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:09:12 -0500, Jon Amundsen > wrote: >> Hi Everyone! >> >> As you may have picked up from some of the other posts to the list, some >> of us got together last Saturday for what will hopefully be the first of >> many eXtreme Piranha programming sessions. I'd like to put forth the >> idea that the Chicago Perl Mongers group adopt the 'piranha' as a >> mascot. If there is general consensus then maybe one of the artistic >> 'Mac' people in the group could do a graphic or 2 that we could vote on >> for a logo. Something on the order of the openbsd blowfish? >> >> For those who aren't familiar with the piranha here's a link. >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piranha. >> >> -- >> >> Jon Amundsen >> jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org >> >> A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a >> "Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. >> -- Mahatma Gandhi >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chicago-talk mailing list >> Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk >> >> >> >> > > > > -- > Chris > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From frag at ripco.com Thu Sep 23 14:36:53 2004 From: frag at ripco.com (Mike Fragassi) Date: Thu Sep 23 14:36:57 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree dependencies In-Reply-To: <20040922235327.GG687@utility> References: <20040922235327.GG687@utility> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Sep 2004, Jon Amundsen wrote: > Since my last suggestion(piranha mascot) went over like a lead balloon > I'm hoping someone responds to this. I don't care much either way, but why a piranha? -- Mike F. From jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org Thu Sep 23 14:50:35 2004 From: jamundsen at jamundsen.dyndns.org (jamundsen@jamundsen.dyndns.org) Date: Thu Sep 23 14:50:37 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree dependencies In-Reply-To: References: <20040922235327.GG687@utility> Message-ID: <15592.12.119.251.194.1095969035.squirrel@12.119.251.194> Well... the lead balloon comment has certainly gotten the discussion going! ;) Someone misspelled Panera in an email to me and it looked like piranha. It struck me as funny, and now I have my heart set on it! > > On Wed, 22 Sep 2004, Jon Amundsen wrote: > >> Since my last suggestion(piranha mascot) went over like a lead balloon >> I'm hoping someone responds to this. > > I don't care much either way, but why a piranha? > > -- Mike F. > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > From shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 21:40:47 2004 From: shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com (Shawn Carroll) Date: Fri Sep 24 21:40:49 2004 Subject: Fwd: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: <20040921005452.GC687@utility> References: <15436.12.119.251.194.1095686075.squirrel@12.119.251.194> <2df270ef04092009081b7151b7@mail.gmail.com> <2df270ef040920095319fdeeca@mail.gmail.com> <15558.12.119.251.194.1095699540.squirrel@12.119.251.194> <2df270ef04092010006e0e7571@mail.gmail.com> <20040921005452.GC687@utility> Message-ID: I am committing clonei.t with a failing test. $c and $t fail a is_deeply test. The code of the clone method shows that this isn't _really_ supported for Tree objs.... Thoughts? --Shawn -- shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com Perl Programmer Soccer Referee From easyasy2k at gmail.com Sat Sep 25 02:56:46 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Sat Sep 25 02:56:53 2004 Subject: Fwd: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: References: <15436.12.119.251.194.1095686075.squirrel@12.119.251.194> <2df270ef04092009081b7151b7@mail.gmail.com> <2df270ef040920095319fdeeca@mail.gmail.com> <15558.12.119.251.194.1095699540.squirrel@12.119.251.194> <2df270ef04092010006e0e7571@mail.gmail.com> <20040921005452.GC687@utility> Message-ID: <2df270ef040925005623b1f59f@mail.gmail.com> Okay, here clonei.t alternates between failing #2 and eating 10mB of memory a second after doing #1. Test::More in its docs says it is not tested with circular references, so that is more than likely the problem. I'll be emailing Schwern about it, per Sean's request. The real solution seems to be changing it to use Test::Deep, which I'll be trying yet tonight. We should ask Andy what to do here, since adding a dependency on a testing module is mighty inconvenient for some. (WWW::Mechanize skips some tests if some modules are not found, and includes another in its package) I also manged to have building.t fail one test. See the updated http://phalanx.kwiki.org/index.cgi?HTMLTreeTrunkOnFire page for that. On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:40:47 -0500, Shawn Carroll wrote: > I am committing clonei.t with a failing test. $c and $t fail a > is_deeply test. The code of the clone method shows that this isn't > _really_ supported for Tree objs.... Thoughts? > > --Shawn > > > > -- > shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com > Perl Programmer > Soccer Referee > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From easyasy2k at gmail.com Sat Sep 25 04:07:24 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Sat Sep 25 04:07:26 2004 Subject: Fwd: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: <2df270ef040925005623b1f59f@mail.gmail.com> References: <2df270ef04092009081b7151b7@mail.gmail.com> <2df270ef040920095319fdeeca@mail.gmail.com> <15558.12.119.251.194.1095699540.squirrel@12.119.251.194> <2df270ef04092010006e0e7571@mail.gmail.com> <20040921005452.GC687@utility> <2df270ef040925005623b1f59f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2df270ef04092502077cf22577@mail.gmail.com> Okay, after uh, 37 minutes of coding and talking with Sean, it looks like Test::Deep should not be used either. Here's Sean's explanation: Me: not ok 2 - $c is a true clone of $t # # Failed test (clonei.t at line 17) # Comparing hash keys of $data # Missing: '_body', '_head', '_pos' (see footnote #1) Sean: OK, those shouldn't count. They're internal attributes. that's why $t->same_as($c) would ignore them. Me: okay, so they are internal attributes of the _object_ that aren't related to HTML. Sean: right. Those specifically are about parser state. Me: so the clone is in a different state. can you kinda explain that? would be good for the next email I'm writing. Sean: well, the thing is this: You can't copy the state of the parser, because the parser involves XS. And anyway, it'd come down to copying a filehandle, so no point. Instead, ->clone just copies the tree structure and external attributes (i.e., everything you'd see if you did ->as_HTML). So, the points both Test::More::is_deeply (half the time) and Test::Deep::cmp_deeply are failing on are just internal variables that HTML::TreeBuilder uses that have no effect on output html, etc. This solves the problem of using Test::Deep (for now - it might come up later again) and its 3 dependencies, one of which is Scalar::Util, which could of introduced some kind of irony, but I'm too tried right now. I've committed what the author says to be correct tests, though I'm not sure exactly what the new tests are testing. If clone works? If is_same works? Both? 1 - Code to generate that output can be had at http://protoplasmic.org/random/phalanx_chicago/clonei_bad.t On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 02:56:46 -0500, Leland Johnson wrote: > Okay, here clonei.t alternates between failing #2 and eating 10mB of > memory a second after doing #1. > > Test::More in its docs says it is not tested with circular references, > so that is more than likely the problem. I'll be emailing Schwern > about it, per Sean's request. > > The real solution seems to be changing it to use Test::Deep, which > I'll be trying yet tonight. We should ask Andy what to do here, since > adding a dependency on a testing module is mighty inconvenient for > some. (WWW::Mechanize skips some tests if some modules are not found, > and includes another in its package) > > I also manged to have building.t fail one test. See the updated > http://phalanx.kwiki.org/index.cgi?HTMLTreeTrunkOnFire page for that. > > > > > On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:40:47 -0500, Shawn Carroll > wrote: > > I am committing clonei.t with a failing test. $c and $t fail a > > is_deeply test. The code of the clone method shows that this isn't > > _really_ supported for Tree objs.... Thoughts? > > > > --Shawn > > > > > > > > -- > > shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com > > Perl Programmer > > Soccer Referee > > _______________________________________________ > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > -- > Leland Johnson > http://protoplasmic.org > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com Sat Sep 25 09:02:06 2004 From: shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com (Shawn Carroll) Date: Sat Sep 25 09:02:12 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] No link on chi.pm.org to the kwiki Message-ID: Would it be possible to throw up a link and some blurb text on our web page about the project? -- shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com Perl Programmer Soccer Referee From andy at petdance.com Sat Sep 25 17:20:02 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Sat Sep 25 17:20:04 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] No link on chi.pm.org to the kwiki In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0B9CB492-0F41-11D9-8C39-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> On Sep 25, 2004, at 9:02 AM, Shawn Carroll wrote: > Would it be possible to throw up a link and some blurb text on our web > page about the project? As soon as someone sends me some blurb text, you betcha. Shawn, you're nominated! xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com Sat Sep 25 18:19:46 2004 From: shawn.c.carroll at gmail.com (Shawn Carroll) Date: Sat Sep 25 18:19:50 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] No link on chi.pm.org to the kwiki In-Reply-To: <0B9CB492-0F41-11D9-8C39-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> References: <0B9CB492-0F41-11D9-8C39-000393CD7BD6@petdance.com> Message-ID: Laziness is good: -- Summary The Chicago Perl Mongers has adopted the HTML::TreeBuilder module maintained by Sean Burke as part of the phalanx project. The goal will be to increase the kwalitee and coverage of the automated test suite and pod documentation. Currently we've increased the overall test coverage by more than 5%!!! The quality of the tests has gone up, and a bug was discovered!!! For up to date information visit our kwiki page. -- On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:20:02 -0500, Andy Lester wrote: > > On Sep 25, 2004, at 9:02 AM, Shawn Carroll wrote: > > > Would it be possible to throw up a link and some blurb text on our web > > page about the project? > > As soon as someone sends me some blurb text, you betcha. > > Shawn, you're nominated! > > xoa > > -- > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com Perl Programmer Soccer Referee From easyasy2k at gmail.com Sat Sep 25 21:49:04 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Sat Sep 25 21:49:07 2004 Subject: Fwd: [Chicago-talk] HTML::Tree progress In-Reply-To: <2df270ef04092502077cf22577@mail.gmail.com> References: <2df270ef04092009081b7151b7@mail.gmail.com> <2df270ef040920095319fdeeca@mail.gmail.com> <15558.12.119.251.194.1095699540.squirrel@12.119.251.194> <2df270ef04092010006e0e7571@mail.gmail.com> <20040921005452.GC687@utility> <2df270ef040925005623b1f59f@mail.gmail.com> <2df270ef04092502077cf22577@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2df270ef04092519494fc9a6b6@mail.gmail.com> Okay, I've committed new tests that test clone() correctly. I've also fixed the problem in building.t On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 04:07:24 -0500, Leland Johnson wrote: > Okay, after uh, 37 minutes of coding and talking with Sean, it looks > like Test::Deep should not be used either. Here's Sean's explanation: > > Me: > not ok 2 - $c is a true clone of $t > # > # Failed test (clonei.t at line 17) > # Comparing hash keys of $data > # Missing: '_body', '_head', '_pos' > (see footnote #1) > > Sean: > OK, those shouldn't count. They're internal attributes. > that's why $t->same_as($c) would ignore them. > > Me: > okay, so they are internal attributes of the _object_ that aren't > related to HTML. > > Sean: > right. Those specifically are about parser state. > > Me: > so the clone is in a different state. can you kinda explain that? > would be good for the next email I'm writing. > > Sean: > well, the thing is this: You can't copy the state of the parser, > because the parser involves XS. And anyway, it'd come down to copying > a filehandle, so no point. Instead, ->clone just copies the tree > structure and external attributes (i.e., everything you'd see if you > did ->as_HTML). > > So, the points both Test::More::is_deeply (half the time) and > Test::Deep::cmp_deeply are failing on are just internal variables that > HTML::TreeBuilder uses that have no effect on output html, etc. > > This solves the problem of using Test::Deep (for now - it might come > up later again) and its 3 dependencies, one of which is Scalar::Util, > which could of introduced some kind of irony, but I'm too tried right > now. > > I've committed what the author says to be correct tests, though I'm > not sure exactly what the new tests are testing. If clone works? If > is_same works? Both? > > 1 - Code to generate that output can be had at > http://protoplasmic.org/random/phalanx_chicago/clonei_bad.t > > > > On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 02:56:46 -0500, Leland Johnson wrote: > > Okay, here clonei.t alternates between failing #2 and eating 10mB of > > memory a second after doing #1. > > > > Test::More in its docs says it is not tested with circular references, > > so that is more than likely the problem. I'll be emailing Schwern > > about it, per Sean's request. > > > > The real solution seems to be changing it to use Test::Deep, which > > I'll be trying yet tonight. We should ask Andy what to do here, since > > adding a dependency on a testing module is mighty inconvenient for > > some. (WWW::Mechanize skips some tests if some modules are not found, > > and includes another in its package) > > > > I also manged to have building.t fail one test. See the updated > > http://phalanx.kwiki.org/index.cgi?HTMLTreeTrunkOnFire page for that. > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:40:47 -0500, Shawn Carroll > > wrote: > > > I am committing clonei.t with a failing test. $c and $t fail a > > > is_deeply test. The code of the clone method shows that this isn't > > > _really_ supported for Tree objs.... Thoughts? > > > > > > --Shawn > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > shawn.c.carroll@gmail.com > > > Perl Programmer > > > Soccer Referee > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Chicago-talk mailing list > > > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > > > > > > > > -- > > Leland Johnson > > http://protoplasmic.org > > > > > > > -- > Leland Johnson > http://protoplasmic.org > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From thomasoniii at gmail.com Mon Sep 27 14:43:31 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Mon Sep 27 14:43:58 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] modeling bridge tables Message-ID: <5cfdfaf704092712436194e8e6@mail.gmail.com> There are several object relational persistence gizmos available. Most of them map a single class to a single table, and a single object to a single row in the table. They also tend to have ways to define relationships. This object has some of that object and such. Let's use an example. Say I have two objects, a company and a building. Companies are objects, they have rows in the companies table. Buildings are objects, they have rows in the buildings table. You can even easily model that a company is in a building, just give the company object a building attribute, which turns into a building_id column in the table. In short, modeling 1-1 relationships is easy. Other companies, like McDonald's for example, have multiple buildings that only they occupy. This is again easy, you stick a company_id into the buildings table. Modeling 1-N relationships is easy. Unfortunately, there's a whole mess of other companies that have multiple buildings. You can't just stick additional columns into the two tables now, you need a third table to bridge them. We'll call it company_building_rlt. It'll hold a company id and a building id. This is also the appropriate place to stick in relationship related information, such as the move-in date, the rent, and the number of employees that work there. All easily done in the database, but how in the world should I set up objects to handle that third table? Using the standard paradigm from above, I'd create a new object ("CompanyBuildingRLT.pm"?) and relate that way. Companies have CompanyBuildingRLTs, CompanyBuildingRLTs have buildings. But I loathe this idea, since it doesn't make logical sense to me. A CompanyBuildingRLT object? What the hell is that? Other approaches would be to magically replace my CompanyBuildingRLT objects with buildings when the company requests them. So that: my @buildings = $company->buildings(); would load the CompanyBuildingRLT objects and map them to the building objects they reference, then return those. This has two disadvantages. 1) I lose access to the additional data stored within the table (rent, move-in date, etc.) and 2) I still need to keep the damn CompanyBuildingRLT objects around, to directly read from as well as write to the table. The third option I can think of is to subclass the Building class and add in all the associated information from CompanyBuildingRLT. So that my @buildings = $company->buildings(); would actually return a Building::Company object (or whatever) that is a building object, but also has attributes for rent, move-in date, etc. This gives me direct access to the table, while also giving me direct access to the relational table. This has some disadvantages, though, relating to going in the opposite direction. Presumably, I'd want to take a building and do this: my @companies = $building->companies(); In order for that to work, I'd need to subclass in the other direction (Company::Building (or whatever)) and have that one populate the same attributes into this company subclass. This ends up with a lot of code duplication. And having two classes doing similar things seems like I'm just begging for confusion. Finally, I can take this subclassing approach and hang them both off of a new superclass (CompanyBuildingRLT again, bleh), and have that contain the common code between them. It works, but it makes my hierarchy deeper, adds more modules, and brings back the damn CompanyBuildingRLT table again. Most annoyingly, it would introduce multiple inheritence, which I really don't want to do. I was really gung-ho about the subclassing solution until I realized the issue with bidirectional access, and now I'm not so sure. Anybody have any suggestions for clean/logical ways to interface with these things? -Jim.... From easyasy2k at gmail.com Mon Sep 27 14:48:20 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Mon Sep 27 14:49:56 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Debugger with HTML::Treebuilder Message-ID: <2df270ef040927124835ab7daf@mail.gmail.com> I keep having to kill perl manually when I use the debugger on t/tree.t I'm just doing `perl -dT t/tree.t` I'm pretty sure this has something to do with HTML::TreeBuilder's recursive voodoo magic. Error: *** malloc[7933]: Deallocation of a pointer not malloced: 0x8e1448; This could be a double free(), or free() called with the middle of an allocated block Any sugguestions? -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From andy at petdance.com Mon Sep 27 14:59:24 2004 From: andy at petdance.com (Andy Lester) Date: Mon Sep 27 14:59:25 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Debugger with HTML::Treebuilder In-Reply-To: <2df270ef040927124835ab7daf@mail.gmail.com> References: <2df270ef040927124835ab7daf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040927195924.GA31334@petdance.com> On Mon, Sep 27, 2004 at 02:48:20PM -0500, Leland Johnson (easyasy2k@gmail.com) wrote: > I keep having to kill perl manually when I use the debugger on > t/tree.t I'm just doing `perl -dT t/tree.t` I'm pretty sure this has > something to do with HTML::TreeBuilder's recursive voodoo magic. I think you actually want perl -T -d t/tree.t I think that stacking T on -d makes it think it wants a debugger module named "T". xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance From gdf at speakeasy.net Mon Sep 27 16:24:23 2004 From: gdf at speakeasy.net (Greg Fast) Date: Mon Sep 27 16:24:26 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Debugger with HTML::Treebuilder In-Reply-To: <2df270ef040927124835ab7daf@mail.gmail.com> References: <2df270ef040927124835ab7daf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200409272124.i8RLOOj8008941@www.pm.org> On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:48:20 -0500, Leland Johnson wrote: > I keep having to kill perl manually when I use the debugger on > t/tree.t I'm just doing `perl -dT t/tree.t` I'm pretty sure this has > something to do with HTML::TreeBuilder's recursive voodoo magic. > > Error: > *** malloc[7933]: Deallocation of a pointer not malloced: 0x8e1448; > This could be a double free(), or free() called with the middle of an > allocated block > > Any sugguestions? I've seen this too. First, I think this is a problem specific to OSX. Second, the problem appears to be in Test::More, not tree.t . Try this: perl -MTest::More -de 0 Quitting immediately causes the malloc error. -- Greg Fast http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/ From lembark at wrkhors.com Mon Sep 27 16:26:46 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Mon Sep 27 16:27:03 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] PAUSE indexer report LEMBARK/NEXT-init-1.02.tar.gz (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: PAUSE Subject: PAUSE indexer report LEMBARK/NEXT-init-1.02.tar.gz > The following report has been written by the PAUSE namespace indexer. > Please contact modules@perl.org if there are any open questions. > Id > > User: LEMBARK (Steven Lembark) > Distribution file: NEXT-init-1.02.tar.gz > Number of files: 6 > *.pm files: 1 > README: No README found > META.yml: NEXT-init-1.02/META.yml > Timestamp of file: Mon Sep 27 20:22:02 2004 UTC > Time of this run: Mon Sep 27 20:59:02 2004 UTC > > The following packages (grouped by status) have been found in the distro: > > Status: Successfully indexed > ============================ > > module: NEXT::init > version: 0.99 > in file: NEXT-init-1.02/lib/NEXT/init.pm > status: indexed > > __END__ ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From me at heyjay.com Mon Sep 27 21:30:12 2004 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Mon Sep 27 21:23:38 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] modeling bridge tables References: <5cfdfaf704092712436194e8e6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <006201c4a503$16869460$6405a8c0@washington> I'd think you could use Class::DBI pretty easily for this. It gives you all the methods for traversing the relationships. If you have to do custom sql (for big joins for example) it has a facility for that too. Ps just call them Company---CompanyBuilding---Building Get rid of the "rlt" and it makes more sense Jay From thomasoniii at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 09:05:37 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Tue Sep 28 09:05:50 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] modeling bridge tables In-Reply-To: <006201c4a503$16869460$6405a8c0@washington> References: <5cfdfaf704092712436194e8e6@mail.gmail.com> <006201c4a503$16869460$6405a8c0@washington> Message-ID: <5cfdfaf7040928070552f3bbc2@mail.gmail.com> > I'd think you could use Class::DBI pretty easily for this. It gives you > all the methods for traversing the relationships. If you have to do > custom sql (for big joins for example) it has a facility for that too. > > Ps just call them > > Company---CompanyBuilding---Building "CompanyBuilding" doesn't make any more sense. It's not an object, it doesn't model anything in the real world, it's an object representation of an abstract concept. I can get a little better by re-defining my terms, say by calling this middle object a "lease" or a "BuildingAgreement" or something like that. Disadvantages to this include 1) the bridge table may already exist, giving the object and the table completely different names. Minor point, but still a little annoying. 2) The concept isn't universal, you can't always re-define the bridge table into something logical that makes sense as an object. Regardless, looking into Class::DBI and its limitations is what got me motivated to post this anyway. I still need to use the CompanyBuilding object when using Class::DBI. The best I can do is to use its magical methods to map the CompanyBuilding object into a Company object (or Building, as appropriate), but then again I still lose the information in the bridge table. -Jim.... From jason at multiply.org Tue Sep 28 10:06:42 2004 From: jason at multiply.org (jason@multiply.org) Date: Tue Sep 28 10:06:53 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] modeling bridge tables In-Reply-To: <5cfdfaf7040928070552f3bbc2@mail.gmail.com> References: <5cfdfaf704092712436194e8e6@mail.gmail.com> <006201c4a503$16869460$6405a8c0@washington> <5cfdfaf7040928070552f3bbc2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1096384002.41597e0287dca@manage.multiply.org> Why complicate it? If you can have a many to many as a common scenario, skip the local storage of a 1->n (the building_id in company, in your example). Use something like this: -------------------------- Company Table +----------------------+ | company_id | | ...others | +----------------------+ Building Table +----------------------+ | building_id | | ...others | +----------------------+ company_to_building table +----------------------+ | company_id | | building_id | | ...others | +----------------------+ don't overcomplicate it. From a company_to_building table, you have access to the building and company objects without muddying their details and functionality. -jason gessner jason@multiply.org ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From wiggins at danconia.org Tue Sep 28 10:24:21 2004 From: wiggins at danconia.org (Wiggins d Anconia) Date: Tue Sep 28 10:24:24 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] modeling bridge tables Message-ID: <200409281524.i8SFOLj11236@residualselfimage.com> > Why complicate it? > > If you can have a many to many as a common scenario, skip the local storage of a > 1->n (the building_id in company, in your example). > > Use something like this: > -------------------------- > > Company Table > +----------------------+ > | company_id | > | ...others | > +----------------------+ > > > Building Table > +----------------------+ > | building_id | > | ...others | > +----------------------+ > > > company_to_building table > +----------------------+ > | company_id | > | building_id | > | ...others | > +----------------------+ > > don't overcomplicate it. From a company_to_building table, you have access to > the building and company objects without muddying their details and > functionality. > > -jason gessner > jason@multiply.org > I agree with this, as great as OOP is, sometimes real world data can not be effectively modeled in a strict practice without "breaking some of the rules". If the relationship shows that one knows about the other and vice versa than put in the circular references needed to achieve that, just be careful with them. But then I don't have all the design pattern, etc. learning, I just solve real world problems ;-)... http://danconia.org From me at heyjay.com Tue Sep 28 10:31:51 2004 From: me at heyjay.com (Jay Strauss) Date: Tue Sep 28 10:25:13 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] modeling bridge tables References: <5cfdfaf704092712436194e8e6@mail.gmail.com><006201c4a503$16869460$6405a8c0@washington> <5cfdfaf7040928070552f3bbc2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <014201c4a570$48577d70$6405a8c0@washington> > "CompanyBuilding" doesn't make any more sense. It's not an object, it > doesn't model anything in the real world, it's an object > representation of an abstract concept. So call the object "Lease" and the underlying table "CompanyBuilding" or some such. If you're going to use an RDBMS you've got to model it correctly to store all the data. If you want your objects named something different than the underlying tables, so be it. > The best I can do is to use its magical > methods to map the CompanyBuilding object into a Company object (or > Building, as appropriate), but then again I still lose the information > in the bridge table. You don't lose any info. You can get to any column in any table (and any intermediate tables) if there is a relationship(s) defined between those tables. That is, from building you can get the lease information, and the company information, and visa versa. Jay From thomasoniii at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 10:37:17 2004 From: thomasoniii at gmail.com (Jim Thomason) Date: Tue Sep 28 10:37:22 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] modeling bridge tables In-Reply-To: <014201c4a570$48577d70$6405a8c0@washington> References: <5cfdfaf704092712436194e8e6@mail.gmail.com> <006201c4a503$16869460$6405a8c0@washington> <5cfdfaf7040928070552f3bbc2@mail.gmail.com> <014201c4a570$48577d70$6405a8c0@washington> Message-ID: <5cfdfaf70409280837261ca9e9@mail.gmail.com> Yes, yes. "this is my box. Now I shall think within it." I'm quite aware of the existing ways to do it (such as making that infernal middle object) - I even rattled it off in my first email. I still don't like it and will still continue to search for a better way to store the data. Creating the intermediary object is still re-defining the logic of how things are accessed and used based upon the underlying storage mechanism. A different storage mechanism would potentially not require that bridge object (whereas the company and building would always be required, since they actually _exist_). I'm still going to try and come up with a better way to do it. Has nobody else ever even attempted another way to model this data? Some aborted attempt or failed bit of code or discarded theory? Anything? Or am I just alone in thinking that it's not a great way to do it? -Jim..... From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov Tue Sep 28 15:55:28 2004 From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov) Date: Tue Sep 28 15:56:21 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] removing blank lined header Message-ID: This works: perl -ne 'print unless 1 .. /\w/ and ! /\w/ ' /tmp/dp.out so shouldn't this (it doesn't): perl -ne 'print if 1 .. /\w/ or /\w/ ' oops. perl -ne 'print if ! 1 .. /\w/ or /\w/ ' never mind - unless anybody has a less logical method. a Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler Internet: andy_bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov VOICE: (608) 261-5738 FAX 264-5932 Contrariwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be, and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic!" -- Lewis Carroll, "Through the Looking Glass" From easyasy2k at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 18:47:44 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Tue Sep 28 18:47:46 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] removing blank lined header In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2df270ef04092816477e87d397@mail.gmail.com> What are you trying to just remove blank lines? Then this would be the best: perl -n -e 'print unless /^$/' or, editing in place... perl -n -i -e 'print unless /^$/' On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:55:28 -0500, andy_bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov wrote: > This works: > perl -ne 'print unless 1 .. /\w/ and ! /\w/ ' /tmp/dp.out > > so shouldn't this (it doesn't): > perl -ne 'print if 1 .. /\w/ or /\w/ ' > > oops. > perl -ne 'print if ! 1 .. /\w/ or /\w/ ' > > never mind - unless anybody has a less logical method. > > a > > Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler > Internet: andy_bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov > VOICE: (608) 261-5738 FAX 264-5932 > > Contrariwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be, and > if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic!" > -- Lewis Carroll, "Through the Looking Glass" > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From easyasy2k at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 19:02:20 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Tue Sep 28 19:02:23 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] Debugger with HTML::Treebuilder In-Reply-To: <-7440631947340300521@unknownmsgid> References: <2df270ef040927124835ab7daf@mail.gmail.com> <-7440631947340300521@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <2df270ef04092817027d883a8e@mail.gmail.com> Hmmm.... This is the second bug in Test::More I've encountered since the start of the project. The first one was already reported and a patch sent: http://rt.cpan.org/NoAuth/Bug.html?id=7289 We don't need the patch though, since the test has since been changed. Well, how do we go about reporting this? I suppose that tracking down the problem would be the most favored solution, but that might be hard, considering it dies during the debugger's quit sequence. On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:24:23 -0500, Greg Fast wrote: > On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:48:20 -0500, Leland Johnson wrote: > > I keep having to kill perl manually when I use the debugger on > > t/tree.t I'm just doing `perl -dT t/tree.t` I'm pretty sure this has > > something to do with HTML::TreeBuilder's recursive voodoo magic. > > > > Error: > > *** malloc[7933]: Deallocation of a pointer not malloced: 0x8e1448; > > This could be a double free(), or free() called with the middle of an > > allocated block > > > > Any sugguestions? > > I've seen this too. First, I think this is a problem specific to > OSX. Second, the problem appears to be in Test::More, not tree.t . > Try this: > > perl -MTest::More -de 0 > > Quitting immediately causes the malloc error. > > -- > Greg Fast > http://cken.chi.groogroo.com/~gdf/ > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov Tue Sep 28 20:51:41 2004 From: Andy_Bach at wiwb.uscourts.gov (Andy_Bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov) Date: Tue Sep 28 20:52:02 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] removing blank lined header Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/chicago-talk/attachments/20040928/51da5b64/attachment.htm From lembark at wrkhors.com Wed Sep 29 00:02:17 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Wed Sep 29 00:02:35 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] removing blank lined header In-Reply-To: <2df270ef04092816477e87d397@mail.gmail.com> References: <2df270ef04092816477e87d397@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1840B87B335605AE7B0659D0@duke.wrkhors.com> > perl -n -i -e 'print unless /^$/' what about lines with multiple bits of whitespace (e.g., trailing ^M's)? perl -n -i -e 'print if /\S/' $file; will print anything with non-whitespace on the line (which gracefully handles msdog/vms files. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From lembark at wrkhors.com Wed Sep 29 00:03:09 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Wed Sep 29 00:03:26 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] removing blank lined header In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > perl -n -e 'print unless /^\s*$/' Depending on how much data you have, 'print if /\S/' will be faster since it can stop at the first non-space char it finds on the line. -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From easyasy2k at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 10:24:39 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Wed Sep 29 10:24:45 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] removing blank lined header In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2df270ef0409290824519a7ccd@mail.gmail.com> perl -ne'BEGIN { $a = 0 } $a++ if(not /^$/); print if(!/^$/ or $a)' clunky, but works. On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:51:41 -0500, andy_bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov wrote: > > No, not trying to remove all blank lines, just the first chunk of them. Its a 'filter' to be added to an SQL 'output to' line - the sql adds a few blank lines at the top and the script that handles the output has problems w/ that. Its not my script (I'd hae delimited data and have perl do the whole mess) just somebody looking for something more flexible than 'tail +5' as, apparently, its an indeterminate # of blank lines. > > > perl -n -e 'print unless /^$/' > > > I often use: > perl -n -e 'print unless /^\s*$/' > > which lets you skip blank but having whitespace lines. I know things like email are 'guarenteed' to have an empty line in them, but ... BSTS. > > a > > Andy Bach, Sys. Mangler > Internet: andy_bach@wiwb.uscourts.gov > VOICE: (608) 261-5738 FAX 264-5932 > > Contrariwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be, and > if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic!" > -- Lewis Carroll, "Through the Looking Glass" > > > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From lembark at wrkhors.com Wed Sep 29 13:20:56 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Wed Sep 29 13:21:14 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] removing blank lined header In-Reply-To: <2df270ef0409290824519a7ccd@mail.gmail.com> References: <2df270ef0409290824519a7ccd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: -- Leland Johnson > perl -ne'BEGIN { $a = 0 } $a++ if(not /^$/); print if(!/^$/ or $a)' > clunky, but works. local $/; ( $a = ) =~ s/^\s+//s -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 From easyasy2k at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 13:41:14 2004 From: easyasy2k at gmail.com (Leland Johnson) Date: Wed Sep 29 13:41:20 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] removing blank lined header In-Reply-To: References: <2df270ef0409290824519a7ccd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2df270ef04092911417ccfe55d@mail.gmail.com> That's pretty slick. On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:20:56 -0400, Steven Lembark wrote: > > > -- Leland Johnson > > > perl -ne'BEGIN { $a = 0 } $a++ if(not /^$/); print if(!/^$/ or $a)' > > clunky, but works. > > local $/; > ( $a = ) =~ s/^\s+//s > > > > > -- > Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street > Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 > lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508 > _______________________________________________ > Chicago-talk mailing list > Chicago-talk@mail.pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago-talk > -- Leland Johnson http://protoplasmic.org From lembark at wrkhors.com Wed Sep 29 17:26:42 2004 From: lembark at wrkhors.com (Steven Lembark) Date: Wed Sep 29 17:27:12 2004 Subject: [Chicago-talk] removing blank lined header In-Reply-To: <2df270ef04092911417ccfe55d@mail.gmail.com> References: <2df270ef0409290824519a7ccd@mail.gmail.com> <2df270ef04092911417ccfe55d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: -- Leland Johnson > That's pretty slick. Nothing like a bit of S&M to lubricate your work :-) -- Steven Lembark 85-09 90th Street Workhorse Computing Woodhaven, NY 11421 lembark@wrkhors.com 1 888 359 3508