From cbrandt at buffalo.edu Tue Jun 7 13:03:34 2005 From: cbrandt at buffalo.edu (Jim Brandt) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:03:34 -0400 Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Buffalo PM Summer Schedule Message-ID: I know, I've been slacking, but here is a proposed schedule at last... Wednesday, June 15 Wednesday, July 13 Wednesday, August 10 Based on some feedback, I've moved the meetings to Wednesday. Most people didn't care about the day, but a few didn't like Thursdays, so there you are. No one had a problem with the location, so can we still get the room, Dan? Now we need topics! Some questions to help find topics: 1) Is there anything someone would like to see covered? 2) Could we do a beginner topic each session? Spend maybe 30 minutes on it. Info for beginners and others can chime in on other ways to do it, etc. Also, we can rotate who covers the info. 3) Ideas for summer sessions: * PerlMonks overview; * More on GUI programming with Perl; * Conference summaries for YAPC and OSCON; * Perl 6; * Cool modules; * Good coding practices with Perl; * How to write a Perl module; * Installing Perl on Unixy systems and on Windows; * Installing Perl modules; * Testing; So if you have any thoughts, please reply with: * Comments on the proposed days; * Offers to present at a session (and which one); * Another comments; For your reading pleasure: http://theperlreview.com/ Final note: Some folks had problems with the digest option on the list. I checked the settings and all looked OK, but that doesn't explain the problem. This list is *very* low traffic, so I would suggest just converting to normal mode. Thanks, Jim ========================================== Jim Brandt Administrative Computing Services University at Buffalo From eye at buffalo.edu Tue Jun 7 13:22:42 2005 From: eye at buffalo.edu (Kevin Eye) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:22:42 -0400 Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Buffalo PM Summer Schedule In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wouldn't mind presenting on the module-related topics. Modules (and CPAN) are IMHO what make perl great. I've got tons of experience getting modules compiled and installed -- on linux/unix, OSX, windows, in local, non-system-wide directories, even on $10/month web hosts that don't allow shell access. I'd be happy to give away all my secrets. I think that could take 20-40 minutes. Part of it could be beginner-level (where to find modules, how to download and run make, where to find example usage, why to use modules). I like the "How to write a module" topic, too. It could be done at the same or a different meeting. - Kevin On Jun 7, 2005, at 4:03 PM, Jim Brandt wrote: > I know, I've been slacking, but here is a proposed schedule at last... > > Wednesday, June 15 > > Wednesday, July 13 > > Wednesday, August 10 > > Based on some feedback, I've moved the meetings to Wednesday. Most > people didn't care about the day, but a few didn't like Thursdays, so > there you are. > > No one had a problem with the location, so can we still get the room, > Dan? > > Now we need topics! > > Some questions to help find topics: > > 1) Is there anything someone would like to see covered? > > 2) Could we do a beginner topic each session? Spend maybe 30 minutes > on it. Info for beginners and others can chime in on other ways to do > it, etc. Also, we can rotate who covers the info. > > 3) Ideas for summer sessions: > > * PerlMonks overview; > * More on GUI programming with Perl; > * Conference summaries for YAPC and OSCON; > * Perl 6; > * Cool modules; > * Good coding practices with Perl; > * How to write a Perl module; > * Installing Perl on Unixy systems and on Windows; > * Installing Perl modules; > * Testing; > > So if you have any thoughts, please reply with: > > * Comments on the proposed days; > > * Offers to present at a session (and which one); > > * Another comments; > > For your reading pleasure: > > http://theperlreview.com/ > > Final note: Some folks had problems with the digest option on the > list. I checked the settings and all looked OK, but that doesn't > explain the problem. This list is *very* low traffic, so I would > suggest just converting to normal mode. > > Thanks, > Jim > > > ========================================== > Jim Brandt > Administrative Computing Services > University at Buffalo > > _______________________________________________ > Buffalo-pm mailing list > Buffalo-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/buffalo-pm > -- Kevin Eye Web Applications Developer Creative Services and Marketing University at Buffalo 330 Crofts Hall Buffalo, NY 14260 eye at buffalo.edu phone (716) 645-5000 x1435 fax (716) 645-3765 From dmagnuszewski at yahoo.com Wed Jun 8 12:04:46 2005 From: dmagnuszewski at yahoo.com (Daniel Magnuszewski) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:04:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Buffalo PM Summer Schedule In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050608190446.46395.qmail@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jim, Those dates look good except for the one in June. I'm taking a class this summer, and I have class Tue Wed Thurs from 6 - 9:30, so I won't be able to make it on that day. My class is done by July 1, so I'll be free after that. I will try and get access to the room, and I'll let you know. As far as topics go, I'd like to see Good coding practices with Perl, and How to write a Perl module. -Dan Jim Brandt wrote: I know, I've been slacking, but here is a proposed schedule at last... Wednesday, June 15 Wednesday, July 13 Wednesday, August 10 Based on some feedback, I've moved the meetings to Wednesday. Most people didn't care about the day, but a few didn't like Thursdays, so there you are. No one had a problem with the location, so can we still get the room, Dan? Now we need topics! Some questions to help find topics: 1) Is there anything someone would like to see covered? 2) Could we do a beginner topic each session? Spend maybe 30 minutes on it. Info for beginners and others can chime in on other ways to do it, etc. Also, we can rotate who covers the info. 3) Ideas for summer sessions: * PerlMonks overview; * More on GUI programming with Perl; * Conference summaries for YAPC and OSCON; * Perl 6; * Cool modules; * Good coding practices with Perl; * How to write a Perl module; * Installing Perl on Unixy systems and on Windows; * Installing Perl modules; * Testing; So if you have any thoughts, please reply with: * Comments on the proposed days; * Offers to present at a session (and which one); * Another comments; For your reading pleasure: http://theperlreview.com/ Final note: Some folks had problems with the digest option on the list. I checked the settings and all looked OK, but that doesn't explain the problem. This list is *very* low traffic, so I would suggest just converting to normal mode. Thanks, Jim ========================================== Jim Brandt Administrative Computing Services University at Buffalo _______________________________________________ Buffalo-pm mailing list Buffalo-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/buffalo-pm --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/buffalo-pm/attachments/20050608/02db35a1/attachment.html From dmagnuszewski at yahoo.com Wed Jun 8 12:57:49 2005 From: dmagnuszewski at yahoo.com (Daniel Magnuszewski) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:57:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Buffalo PM Summer Schedule In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050608195749.58868.qmail@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Nice article! I did catch a typo though (you may of already caught it as well): "His second goal was to create assistive technology for people with disabilities the was freely available, since many products are prohibitively expensive for families." I'm assuming that you wanted to say "that was freely available..." Sorry if you've already caught this error. I'd really like play around with pVoice a little more. Perhaps we could go into that during an upcoming meeting. Along those lines, I still haven't figured out my problem with that "slashtalk" program (that reads slashdot to you) and perl2exe. Perhaps we could talk about that as well - using perl2exe to make perl Win32 executables. Thoughts? -Dan Jim Brandt wrote: I know, I've been slacking, but here is a proposed schedule at last... Wednesday, June 15 Wednesday, July 13 Wednesday, August 10 Based on some feedback, I've moved the meetings to Wednesday. Most people didn't care about the day, but a few didn't like Thursdays, so there you are. No one had a problem with the location, so can we still get the room, Dan? Now we need topics! Some questions to help find topics: 1) Is there anything someone would like to see covered? 2) Could we do a beginner topic each session? Spend maybe 30 minutes on it. Info for beginners and others can chime in on other ways to do it, etc. Also, we can rotate who covers the info. 3) Ideas for summer sessions: * PerlMonks overview; * More on GUI programming with Perl; * Conference summaries for YAPC and OSCON; * Perl 6; * Cool modules; * Good coding practices with Perl; * How to write a Perl module; * Installing Perl on Unixy systems and on Windows; * Installing Perl modules; * Testing; So if you have any thoughts, please reply with: * Comments on the proposed days; * Offers to present at a session (and which one); * Another comments; For your reading pleasure: http://theperlreview.com/ Final note: Some folks had problems with the digest option on the list. I checked the settings and all looked OK, but that doesn't explain the problem. This list is *very* low traffic, so I would suggest just converting to normal mode. Thanks, Jim ========================================== Jim Brandt Administrative Computing Services University at Buffalo _______________________________________________ Buffalo-pm mailing list Buffalo-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/buffalo-pm --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/buffalo-pm/attachments/20050608/35eaa4ef/attachment.html From eye at buffalo.edu Thu Jun 9 13:33:42 2005 From: eye at buffalo.edu (Kevin Eye) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:33:42 -0400 Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Buffalo PM Summer Schedule In-Reply-To: <20050608195749.58868.qmail@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050608195749.58868.qmail@web33307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > I still haven't figured out my problem with that "slashtalk" program > (that reads slashdot to you) I noticed this site today, BTW: http://www.speakwire.com/ Not only does it read Slashdot and other RSS feeds to you, I'm pretty sure I hear a computer-generated British accent. :-) Looks like you can't download the audio yet, though. - Kevin > Jim Brandt wrote: >> I know, I've been slacking, but here is a proposed schedule at last... >> >> Wednesday, June 15 >> >> Wednesday, July 13 >> >> Wednesday, August 10 >> >> Based on some feedback, I've moved the meetings to Wednesday. Most >> people didn't care about the day, but a few didn't like Thursdays, so >> there you are. >> >> No one had a problem with the location, so can we still get the room, >> Dan? >> >> Now we need topics! >> >> Some questions to help find topics: >> >> 1) Is there anything someone would like to see covered? >> >> 2) Could we do a beginner topic each session? Spend maybe 30 minutes >> on it. Info for beginners and others can chime in on other ways to do >> it, etc. Also, we can rotate who covers the info. >> >> 3) Ideas for summer sessions: >> >> * PerlMonks overview; >> * More on GUI programming with Perl; >> * Conference summaries for YAPC and OSC ON; >> * Perl 6; >> * Cool modules; >> * Good coding practices with Perl; >> * How to write a Perl module; >> * Installing Perl on Unixy systems and on Windows; >> * Installing Perl modules; >> * Testing; >> >> So if you have any thoughts, please reply with: >> >> * Comments on the proposed days; >> >> * Offers to present at a session (and which one); >> >> * Another comments; >> >> For your reading pleasure: >> >> http://theperlreview.com/ >> >> Final note: Some folks had problems with the digest option on the >> list. I checked the settings and all looked OK, but that doesn't >> explain the problem. This list is *very* low traffic, so I would >> suggest just converting to normal mode. >> >> Thanks, >> Jim >> >> >> ========================================== >> Jim Brandt >> Administrative Computing Services >> University at Buffalo >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Buffalo-pm mailing list >> Buffalo-pm at pm.org >> http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/buffalo-pm > Yahoo! Mail Mobile > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile > phone._______________________________________________ > Buffalo-pm mailing list > Buffalo-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/buffalo-pm -- Kevin Eye Web Applications Developer Creative Services and Marketing University at Buffalo 330 Crofts Hall Buffalo, NY 14260 eye at buffalo.edu phone (716) 645-5000 x1435 fax (716) 645-3765 From dmagnuszewski at mandtbank.com Mon Jun 13 13:09:19 2005 From: dmagnuszewski at mandtbank.com (DANIEL MAGNUSZEWSKI) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 16:09:19 -0400 Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Multi-Threaded Perl... Message-ID: Mongers, I am in the planning stages of writing a program that will make queries to a device (via SNMP), wait for a response, then do something with the information received (namely store it into a database), and move on to the next device in the list. Obviously, when having to do this thousands of times per a 5 minute time frame, a single threaded program can be restricted by the blocking for the I/O Requests. I figured that in order to maximize the speed, it would need to be multithreaded. My real question is whether anyone has written any multithreaded Perl programs, along with the pluses and minuses or using Perl for multithreading. Hopefully I won't have to use C or C++, in which case, I'd probably rather bang my head against the wall. Although, having a high quality UB Computer Science education, it wouldn't be impossible ;-) Any help or insight would be great! Thanks. -Dan From sgriffit at gennum.com Mon Jun 13 13:18:46 2005 From: sgriffit at gennum.com (Shaun Griffith) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 16:18:46 -0400 Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Multi-Threaded Perl... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004401c57055$1ac7a5f0$c417005a@headoffice.gennum.com> Instead of multi-threading, have you thought of forking? What OS are you on? > -----Original Message----- > From: buffalo-pm-bounces at pm.org [mailto:buffalo-pm-bounces at pm.org]On > Behalf Of DANIEL MAGNUSZEWSKI > Sent: June 13, 2005 4:09 PM > To: buffalo-pm at pm.org > Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Multi-Threaded Perl... > > > Mongers, > > I am in the planning stages of writing a program that will > make queries > to a device (via SNMP), wait for a response, then do > something with the > information received (namely store it into a database), and move on to > the next device in the list. Obviously, when having to do > this thousands > of times per a 5 minute time frame, a single threaded program can be > restricted by the blocking for the I/O Requests. I figured > that in order > to maximize the speed, it would need to be multithreaded. > > My real question is whether anyone has written any multithreaded Perl > programs, along with the pluses and minuses or using Perl for > multithreading. Hopefully I won't have to use C or C++, in which case, > I'd probably rather bang my head against the wall. Although, having a > high quality UB Computer Science education, it wouldn't be impossible > ;-) > > Any help or insight would be great! Thanks. > > -Dan > > _______________________________________________ > Buffalo-pm mailing list > Buffalo-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/buffalo-pm From dmagnuszewski at mandtbank.com Mon Jun 13 13:22:57 2005 From: dmagnuszewski at mandtbank.com (DANIEL MAGNUSZEWSKI) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 16:22:57 -0400 Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Multi-Threaded Perl... Message-ID: Yeah, I did. Wasn't really sure which way was better though. I figured I'd gather my facts and compare. Thoughts? The OS is Linux (it'll probably end up with FC3). -Dan >>> "Shaun Griffith" 06/13/05 4:18 PM >>> Instead of multi-threading, have you thought of forking? What OS are you on? > -----Original Message----- > From: buffalo-pm-bounces at pm.org [mailto:buffalo-pm-bounces at pm.org]On > Behalf Of DANIEL MAGNUSZEWSKI > Sent: June 13, 2005 4:09 PM > To: buffalo-pm at pm.org > Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Multi-Threaded Perl... > > > Mongers, > > I am in the planning stages of writing a program that will > make queries > to a device (via SNMP), wait for a response, then do > something with the > information received (namely store it into a database), and move on to > the next device in the list. Obviously, when having to do > this thousands > of times per a 5 minute time frame, a single threaded program can be > restricted by the blocking for the I/O Requests. I figured > that in order > to maximize the speed, it would need to be multithreaded. > > My real question is whether anyone has written any multithreaded Perl > programs, along with the pluses and minuses or using Perl for > multithreading. Hopefully I won't have to use C or C++, in which case, > I'd probably rather bang my head against the wall. Although, having a > high quality UB Computer Science education, it wouldn't be impossible > ;-) > > Any help or insight would be great! Thanks. > > -Dan > > _______________________________________________ > Buffalo-pm mailing list > Buffalo-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/buffalo-pm _______________________________________________ Buffalo-pm mailing list Buffalo-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/buffalo-pm From dmagnuszewski at mandtbank.com Mon Jun 13 14:09:43 2005 From: dmagnuszewski at mandtbank.com (DANIEL MAGNUSZEWSKI) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 17:09:43 -0400 Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Multi-Threaded Perl... Message-ID: Thanks. I guess the real question has become: "Should I fork or multithread? Which does Perl handle better, and which one would be a better solution to my problem - or does it not matter which method I choose?" I'm doing my own research too :-) but I'm just curious to hear anyone's else's experiences. -Dan >>> "Quantum Mechanic" 06/13/05 4:34 PM >>> On *nix, the standard "dispatch to child" idiom is oft used. It's documented in many books, papers, and articles. For instance, in the Perl Cookbook, first edition, section 17.11 discusses "forking servers". You might find one of the variations at http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=301010 useful too. (Disclaimer: I submitted one of these.) -QM On 6/13/05, DANIEL MAGNUSZEWSKI wrote: > Yeah, I did. Wasn't really sure which way was better though. I figured > I'd gather my facts and compare. Thoughts? > > The OS is Linux (it'll probably end up with FC3). > > -Dan > > >>> "Shaun Griffith" 06/13/05 4:18 PM >>> > Instead of multi-threading, have you thought of forking? > > What OS are you on? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: buffalo-pm-bounces at pm.org [mailto:buffalo-pm-bounces at pm.org]On > > > Behalf Of DANIEL MAGNUSZEWSKI > > Sent: June 13, 2005 4:09 PM > > To: buffalo-pm at pm.org > > Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Multi-Threaded Perl... > > > > > > Mongers, > > > > I am in the planning stages of writing a program that will > > make queries > > to a device (via SNMP), wait for a response, then do > > something with the > > information received (namely store it into a database), and move on > to > > the next device in the list. Obviously, when having to do > > this thousands > > of times per a 5 minute time frame, a single threaded program can be > > restricted by the blocking for the I/O Requests. I figured > > that in order > > to maximize the speed, it would need to be multithreaded. > > > > My real question is whether anyone has written any multithreaded > Perl > > programs, along with the pluses and minuses or using Perl for > > multithreading. Hopefully I won't have to use C or C++, in which > case, > > I'd probably rather bang my head against the wall. Although, having > a > > high quality UB Computer Science education, it wouldn't be > impossible > > ;-) > > > > Any help or insight would be great! Thanks. > > > > -Dan > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Buffalo-pm mailing list > > Buffalo-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/buffalo-pm > _______________________________________________ > Buffalo-pm mailing list > Buffalo-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/buffalo-pm > > > _______________________________________________ > Buffalo-pm mailing list > Buffalo-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/buffalo-pm > From cbrandt at buffalo.edu Tue Jun 14 04:33:02 2005 From: cbrandt at buffalo.edu (Jim Brandt) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 07:33:02 -0400 Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Multi-Threaded Perl... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <54D9EBE7-EE0C-4987-B59F-9B7624545612@buffalo.edu> Dan, With either approach, I'm thinking the tricky part is dealing with the database. For best performance, you only want to connect once, but if you have multiple processes contending for that DB handle, I'm thinking things could get messy. Also, I would build a proof of concept with just a single program doing it the simple way and prove to yourself that it won't work. I agree that you'll probably have performance issues, but premature optimization can be a very bad thing. You'll feel better banging on the problem if you prove that it can't work the easy way. Jim On Jun 13, 2005, at 5:09 PM, DANIEL MAGNUSZEWSKI wrote: >>> I am in the planning stages of writing a program that will >>> make queries >>> to a device (via SNMP), wait for a response, then do >>> something with the >>> information received (namely store it into a database), and move >>> > on > >> to >> >>> the next device in the list. Obviously, when having to do >>> this thousands >>> of times per a 5 minute time frame, a single threaded program can >>> > be > >>> restricted by the blocking for the I/O Requests. I figured >>> that in order >>> to maximize the speed, it would need to be multithreaded. ========================================== Jim Brandt Administrative Computing Services University at Buffalo From dmagnuszewski at mandtbank.com Tue Jun 14 06:56:53 2005 From: dmagnuszewski at mandtbank.com (DANIEL MAGNUSZEWSKI) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:56:53 -0400 Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Multi-Threaded Perl... Message-ID: It's not a traditional database that I'd be using to store the results. I'd be using RRDTool, where there is no handle that is needed. I will have other information in a MySQL database but this should be separate from the RRD/SNMP polling part. I'll try and model both approaches, and perhaps this will be something I can discuss during the July meeting - if anyone sounds interested. -Dan >>> "Jim Brandt" 06/14/05 7:33 AM >>> Dan, With either approach, I'm thinking the tricky part is dealing with the database. For best performance, you only want to connect once, but if you have multiple processes contending for that DB handle, I'm thinking things could get messy. Also, I would build a proof of concept with just a single program doing it the simple way and prove to yourself that it won't work. I agree that you'll probably have performance issues, but premature optimization can be a very bad thing. You'll feel better banging on the problem if you prove that it can't work the easy way. Jim On Jun 13, 2005, at 5:09 PM, DANIEL MAGNUSZEWSKI wrote: >>> I am in the planning stages of writing a program that will >>> make queries >>> to a device (via SNMP), wait for a response, then do >>> something with the >>> information received (namely store it into a database), and move >>> > on > >> to >> >>> the next device in the list. Obviously, when having to do >>> this thousands >>> of times per a 5 minute time frame, a single threaded program can >>> > be > >>> restricted by the blocking for the I/O Requests. I figured >>> that in order >>> to maximize the speed, it would need to be multithreaded. ========================================== Jim Brandt Administrative Computing Services University at Buffalo From eye at buffalo.edu Tue Jun 14 07:02:43 2005 From: eye at buffalo.edu (Kevin Eye) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:02:43 -0400 Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Multi-Threaded Perl... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2cd912b5d25f27b47de6614b5ba1b5e5@buffalo.edu> Dan, I tried to write a fairly complicated perl app with threads a few years ago and gave up (I used forking eventually). First know that you may have to (re)compile perl with thread support before you can get started -- I don't think most distributions of perl have threading enabled (except maybe ActivePerl). Also, when I was using threads (around perl 5.6.1), it was not a brand new feature, but it was somewhat experimental. I think it still is. Basically, it worked. But as the app got more complicated, it crashed a lot. The crashes were due to race conditions where multiple threads would access the same data at the same time (e.g. one reading and one writing) leading to null/invalid pointers and spontaneous seg faults/bus errors. The way to prevent these race conditions (in perl and other threaded systems) is to add locks to the code, but this is very tedious. Also, the more locked sections, the more linearized the execution of your program becomes, which partially defeats the purpose of threading. Also, many modules are not thread-safe. This can sometimes be worked around by locking around calls to the entire module, but again, that defeats the purpose of threading. Compounding the problem is that the crashes truly are spontaneous. Since they are caused by thread interactions, which are unpredictable, the program can run fine one time and crash the next. Or you might get it running fine on your system every time, but bugs will be uncovered when you run it on a different system. In theory once all the proper locking is in place, there will be no more crashes, but I found it nearly impossible to get it right. Forking is probably a better option in general for perl, but it is more resource intensive and more difficult to get your processes to communicate. There are fancy ways of making inter-process communication more streamlined (e.g. shared memory -- see IPC::Shareable), but they have some of the drawbacks of shared variables in a threaded app. On the up-side, if you use some sort of stream for IPC (sockets, pipes, etc.) your process will be naturally suited to run distributed on a cluster of machines if that becomes necessary. There are a couple of other options that may help. POE is a perl module distribution that implements a cooperative multitasking environment (rather than preemptive like typical threading). In this type of multitasking, you yield to other tasks at specific points in your code (rather than being interrupted at any time) greatly reducing the locking problem. POE has a steep learning curve, though. I've never used it, so I can't say first hand if it's worthwhile. On the simpler side, there are modules like Event::Lib, Event, and IO::Select that can help you implement non-blocking IO without threading or forking. With a system like this, you would still have one linear code path, but you would not block on each network IO call in order. Instead, you would put them all out there, then handle each one as it's ready. This is potentially the most efficient and simplest approach, but you'll need to have an SNMP module that supports non-blocking IO. I'd try this approach first if possible. It could be later combined with forking (e.g. 10 processes monitoring 10 machines each) if the performance isn't enough. Good luck. - Kevin On Jun 13, 2005, at 4:09 PM, DANIEL MAGNUSZEWSKI wrote: > Mongers, > > I am in the planning stages of writing a program that will make queries > to a device (via SNMP), wait for a response, then do something with the > information received (namely store it into a database), and move on to > the next device in the list. Obviously, when having to do this > thousands > of times per a 5 minute time frame, a single threaded program can be > restricted by the blocking for the I/O Requests. I figured that in > order > to maximize the speed, it would need to be multithreaded. > > My real question is whether anyone has written any multithreaded Perl > programs, along with the pluses and minuses or using Perl for > multithreading. Hopefully I won't have to use C or C++, in which case, > I'd probably rather bang my head against the wall. Although, having a > high quality UB Computer Science education, it wouldn't be impossible > ;-) > > Any help or insight would be great! Thanks. > > -Dan > > _______________________________________________ > Buffalo-pm mailing list > Buffalo-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/buffalo-pm > -- Kevin Eye Web Applications Developer Creative Services and Marketing University at Buffalo 330 Crofts Hall Buffalo, NY 14260 eye at buffalo.edu phone (716) 645-5000 x1435 fax (716) 645-3765 From dmagnuszewski at mandtbank.com Tue Jun 14 07:09:26 2005 From: dmagnuszewski at mandtbank.com (DANIEL MAGNUSZEWSKI) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:09:26 -0400 Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Multi-Threaded Perl... Message-ID: Thanks guys! >>> "Kevin Eye" 06/14/05 10:02 AM >>> Dan, I tried to write a fairly complicated perl app with threads a few years ago and gave up (I used forking eventually). First know that you may have to (re)compile perl with thread support before you can get started -- I don't think most distributions of perl have threading enabled (except maybe ActivePerl). Also, when I was using threads (around perl 5.6.1), it was not a brand new feature, but it was somewhat experimental. I think it still is. Basically, it worked. But as the app got more complicated, it crashed a lot. The crashes were due to race conditions where multiple threads would access the same data at the same time (e.g. one reading and one writing) leading to null/invalid pointers and spontaneous seg faults/bus errors. The way to prevent these race conditions (in perl and other threaded systems) is to add locks to the code, but this is very tedious. Also, the more locked sections, the more linearized the execution of your program becomes, which partially defeats the purpose of threading. Also, many modules are not thread-safe. This can sometimes be worked around by locking around calls to the entire module, but again, that defeats the purpose of threading. Compounding the problem is that the crashes truly are spontaneous. Since they are caused by thread interactions, which are unpredictable, the program can run fine one time and crash the next. Or you might get it running fine on your system every time, but bugs will be uncovered when you run it on a different system. In theory once all the proper locking is in place, there will be no more crashes, but I found it nearly impossible to get it right. Forking is probably a better option in general for perl, but it is more resource intensive and more difficult to get your processes to communicate. There are fancy ways of making inter-process communication more streamlined (e.g. shared memory -- see IPC::Shareable), but they have some of the drawbacks of shared variables in a threaded app. On the up-side, if you use some sort of stream for IPC (sockets, pipes, etc.) your process will be naturally suited to run distributed on a cluster of machines if that becomes necessary. There are a couple of other options that may help. POE is a perl module distribution that implements a cooperative multitasking environment (rather than preemptive like typical threading). In this type of multitasking, you yield to other tasks at specific points in your code (rather than being interrupted at any time) greatly reducing the locking problem. POE has a steep learning curve, though. I've never used it, so I can't say first hand if it's worthwhile. On the simpler side, there are modules like Event::Lib, Event, and IO::Select that can help you implement non-blocking IO without threading or forking. With a system like this, you would still have one linear code path, but you would not block on each network IO call in order. Instead, you would put them all out there, then handle each one as it's ready. This is potentially the most efficient and simplest approach, but you'll need to have an SNMP module that supports non-blocking IO. I'd try this approach first if possible. It could be later combined with forking (e.g. 10 processes monitoring 10 machines each) if the performance isn't enough. Good luck. - Kevin On Jun 13, 2005, at 4:09 PM, DANIEL MAGNUSZEWSKI wrote: > Mongers, > > I am in the planning stages of writing a program that will make queries > to a device (via SNMP), wait for a response, then do something with the > information received (namely store it into a database), and move on to > the next device in the list. Obviously, when having to do this > thousands > of times per a 5 minute time frame, a single threaded program can be > restricted by the blocking for the I/O Requests. I figured that in > order > to maximize the speed, it would need to be multithreaded. > > My real question is whether anyone has written any multithreaded Perl > programs, along with the pluses and minuses or using Perl for > multithreading. Hopefully I won't have to use C or C++, in which case, > I'd probably rather bang my head against the wall. Although, having a > high quality UB Computer Science education, it wouldn't be impossible > ;-) > > Any help or insight would be great! Thanks. > > -Dan > > _______________________________________________ > Buffalo-pm mailing list > Buffalo-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/buffalo-pm > -- Kevin Eye Web Applications Developer Creative Services and Marketing University at Buffalo 330 Crofts Hall Buffalo, NY 14260 eye at buffalo.edu phone (716) 645-5000 x1435 fax (716) 645-3765 From dmagnuszewski at mandtbank.com Tue Jun 14 07:10:09 2005 From: dmagnuszewski at mandtbank.com (DANIEL MAGNUSZEWSKI) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:10:09 -0400 Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Multi-Threaded Perl... Message-ID: Thanks guys! >>> "Kevin Eye" 06/14/05 10:02 AM >>> Dan, I tried to write a fairly complicated perl app with threads a few years ago and gave up (I used forking eventually). First know that you may have to (re)compile perl with thread support before you can get started -- I don't think most distributions of perl have threading enabled (except maybe ActivePerl). Also, when I was using threads (around perl 5.6.1), it was not a brand new feature, but it was somewhat experimental. I think it still is. Basically, it worked. But as the app got more complicated, it crashed a lot. The crashes were due to race conditions where multiple threads would access the same data at the same time (e.g. one reading and one writing) leading to null/invalid pointers and spontaneous seg faults/bus errors. The way to prevent these race conditions (in perl and other threaded systems) is to add locks to the code, but this is very tedious. Also, the more locked sections, the more linearized the execution of your program becomes, which partially defeats the purpose of threading. Also, many modules are not thread-safe. This can sometimes be worked around by locking around calls to the entire module, but again, that defeats the purpose of threading. Compounding the problem is that the crashes truly are spontaneous. Since they are caused by thread interactions, which are unpredictable, the program can run fine one time and crash the next. Or you might get it running fine on your system every time, but bugs will be uncovered when you run it on a different system. In theory once all the proper locking is in place, there will be no more crashes, but I found it nearly impossible to get it right. Forking is probably a better option in general for perl, but it is more resource intensive and more difficult to get your processes to communicate. There are fancy ways of making inter-process communication more streamlined (e.g. shared memory -- see IPC::Shareable), but they have some of the drawbacks of shared variables in a threaded app. On the up-side, if you use some sort of stream for IPC (sockets, pipes, etc.) your process will be naturally suited to run distributed on a cluster of machines if that becomes necessary. There are a couple of other options that may help. POE is a perl module distribution that implements a cooperative multitasking environment (rather than preemptive like typical threading). In this type of multitasking, you yield to other tasks at specific points in your code (rather than being interrupted at any time) greatly reducing the locking problem. POE has a steep learning curve, though. I've never used it, so I can't say first hand if it's worthwhile. On the simpler side, there are modules like Event::Lib, Event, and IO::Select that can help you implement non-blocking IO without threading or forking. With a system like this, you would still have one linear code path, but you would not block on each network IO call in order. Instead, you would put them all out there, then handle each one as it's ready. This is potentially the most efficient and simplest approach, but you'll need to have an SNMP module that supports non-blocking IO. I'd try this approach first if possible. It could be later combined with forking (e.g. 10 processes monitoring 10 machines each) if the performance isn't enough. Good luck. - Kevin On Jun 13, 2005, at 4:09 PM, DANIEL MAGNUSZEWSKI wrote: > Mongers, > > I am in the planning stages of writing a program that will make queries > to a device (via SNMP), wait for a response, then do something with the > information received (namely store it into a database), and move on to > the next device in the list. Obviously, when having to do this > thousands > of times per a 5 minute time frame, a single threaded program can be > restricted by the blocking for the I/O Requests. I figured that in > order > to maximize the speed, it would need to be multithreaded. > > My real question is whether anyone has written any multithreaded Perl > programs, along with the pluses and minuses or using Perl for > multithreading. Hopefully I won't have to use C or C++, in which case, > I'd probably rather bang my head against the wall. Although, having a > high quality UB Computer Science education, it wouldn't be impossible > ;-) > > Any help or insight would be great! Thanks. > > -Dan > > _______________________________________________ > Buffalo-pm mailing list > Buffalo-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/buffalo-pm > -- Kevin Eye Web Applications Developer Creative Services and Marketing University at Buffalo 330 Crofts Hall Buffalo, NY 14260 eye at buffalo.edu phone (716) 645-5000 x1435 fax (716) 645-3765 From eye at buffalo.edu Tue Jun 14 11:28:55 2005 From: eye at buffalo.edu (Kevin Eye) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:28:55 -0400 Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Buffalo PM Summer Schedule In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0bcd9b8cce59d106784fbffefdf04465@buffalo.edu> In the interest of enticing potential attendees, what's made it on to the agenda for tomorrow's meeting? I hadn't planned out my suggested talk on installing modules yet, but I could wing a short version of it if there's nothing arranged. - Kevin On Jun 7, 2005, at 4:03 PM, Jim Brandt wrote: > I know, I've been slacking, but here is a proposed schedule at last... > > Wednesday, June 15 > > Wednesday, July 13 > > Wednesday, August 10 > > Based on some feedback, I've moved the meetings to Wednesday. Most > people didn't care about the day, but a few didn't like Thursdays, so > there you are. > > No one had a problem with the location, so can we still get the room, > Dan? > > Now we need topics! > > Some questions to help find topics: > > 1) Is there anything someone would like to see covered? > > 2) Could we do a beginner topic each session? Spend maybe 30 minutes > on it. Info for beginners and others can chime in on other ways to do > it, etc. Also, we can rotate who covers the info. > > 3) Ideas for summer sessions: > > * PerlMonks overview; > * More on GUI programming with Perl; > * Conference summaries for YAPC and OSCON; > * Perl 6; > * Cool modules; > * Good coding practices with Perl; > * How to write a Perl module; > * Installing Perl on Unixy systems and on Windows; > * Installing Perl modules; > * Testing; > > So if you have any thoughts, please reply with: > > * Comments on the proposed days; > > * Offers to present at a session (and which one); > > * Another comments; > > For your reading pleasure: > > http://theperlreview.com/ > > Final note: Some folks had problems with the digest option on the > list. I checked the settings and all looked OK, but that doesn't > explain the problem. This list is *very* low traffic, so I would > suggest just converting to normal mode. > > Thanks, > Jim > > > ========================================== > Jim Brandt > Administrative Computing Services > University at Buffalo > > _______________________________________________ > Buffalo-pm mailing list > Buffalo-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/buffalo-pm > -- Kevin Eye Web Applications Developer Creative Services and Marketing University at Buffalo 330 Crofts Hall Buffalo, NY 14260 eye at buffalo.edu phone (716) 645-5000 x1435 fax (716) 645-3765 From dmagnuszewski at mandtbank.com Tue Jun 14 11:40:06 2005 From: dmagnuszewski at mandtbank.com (DANIEL MAGNUSZEWSKI) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:40:06 -0400 Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Buffalo PM Summer Schedule Message-ID: I'd like to hear something about writing a Perl module. Does anyone have experience with this? -Dan P.S - Hey Kevin (our Perl embassador to Arizona)! How's things going out there. You should keep us up to date as to what's going on. >>> "Kevin Eye" 06/14/05 2:28 PM >>> In the interest of enticing potential attendees, what's made it on to the agenda for tomorrow's meeting? I hadn't planned out my suggested talk on installing modules yet, but I could wing a short version of it if there's nothing arranged. - Kevin On Jun 7, 2005, at 4:03 PM, Jim Brandt wrote: > I know, I've been slacking, but here is a proposed schedule at last... > > Wednesday, June 15 > > Wednesday, July 13 > > Wednesday, August 10 > > Based on some feedback, I've moved the meetings to Wednesday. Most > people didn't care about the day, but a few didn't like Thursdays, so > there you are. > > No one had a problem with the location, so can we still get the room, > Dan? > > Now we need topics! > > Some questions to help find topics: > > 1) Is there anything someone would like to see covered? > > 2) Could we do a beginner topic each session? Spend maybe 30 minutes > on it. Info for beginners and others can chime in on other ways to do > it, etc. Also, we can rotate who covers the info. > > 3) Ideas for summer sessions: > > * PerlMonks overview; > * More on GUI programming with Perl; > * Conference summaries for YAPC and OSCON; > * Perl 6; > * Cool modules; > * Good coding practices with Perl; > * How to write a Perl module; > * Installing Perl on Unixy systems and on Windows; > * Installing Perl modules; > * Testing; > > So if you have any thoughts, please reply with: > > * Comments on the proposed days; > > * Offers to present at a session (and which one); > > * Another comments; > > For your reading pleasure: > > http://theperlreview.com/ > > Final note: Some folks had problems with the digest option on the > list. I checked the settings and all looked OK, but that doesn't > explain the problem. This list is *very* low traffic, so I would > suggest just converting to normal mode. > > Thanks, > Jim > > > ========================================== > Jim Brandt > Administrative Computing Services > University at Buffalo > > _______________________________________________ > Buffalo-pm mailing list > Buffalo-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/buffalo-pm > -- Kevin Eye Web Applications Developer Creative Services and Marketing University at Buffalo 330 Crofts Hall Buffalo, NY 14260 eye at buffalo.edu phone (716) 645-5000 x1435 fax (716) 645-3765 _______________________________________________ Buffalo-pm mailing list Buffalo-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/buffalo-pm From cbrandt at buffalo.edu Wed Jun 15 04:50:12 2005 From: cbrandt at buffalo.edu (Jim Brandt) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 07:50:12 -0400 Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Meeting Tonight! Message-ID: <73877150-DDDA-4BE8-8992-C4FCC0891F17@buffalo.edu> I've gotten confirmation that the room should be available, so the meeting is on for tonight. Details: 242 Bell Hall UB North Campus Wednesday, June 15, 7:00 PM Agenda: * Talk about topics for the remaining sessions this summer and set some tentative agendas; * YAPC, who's going? * Main topic: installing modules - how do you install a Perl module from CPAN on a Unixy type system by hand? - how do you install modules using the CPAN module? - other features of the CPAN module - problems installing modules - installing modules on Windows Kevin, if you could talk about the module install basics you mentioned in your email, that would be great. I'll talk about some of these things, specifically some work I've done recently with CPAN autobundles. See here for more info: http://perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=455259 If someone could bring their windows machine, we can talk about active state perl as well. See you tonight! Jim ========================================== Jim Brandt Administrative Computing Services University at Buffalo From eye at buffalo.edu Wed Jun 15 06:00:50 2005 From: eye at buffalo.edu (Kevin Eye) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:00:50 -0400 Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Meeting Tonight! In-Reply-To: <73877150-DDDA-4BE8-8992-C4FCC0891F17@buffalo.edu> References: <73877150-DDDA-4BE8-8992-C4FCC0891F17@buffalo.edu> Message-ID: > Kevin, if you could talk about the module install basics you > mentioned in your email, that would be great. No problem. I'll be ready. I can also mention creating your own module installation tree using h2xs, which is the first step to writing your own module. > If someone could bring their windows machine, we can talk about > active state perl as well. If all else fails, we can remote-access my Windows dev machine on campus. - Kevin -- Kevin Eye Web Applications Developer Creative Services and Marketing University at Buffalo 330 Crofts Hall Buffalo, NY 14260 eye at buffalo.edu phone (716) 645-5000 x1435 fax (716) 645-3765 From cbrandt at buffalo.edu Wed Jun 15 18:31:58 2005 From: cbrandt at buffalo.edu (Jim Brandt) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:31:58 -0400 Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Meeting info from last night Message-ID: <1A50BED8-CA7B-4B27-8C76-244529A3872C@buffalo.edu> Minutes from last night's meeting: Topics for our next two meetings: Wed, July 13: * How to and why to create a Perl Module; (h2xs and Module::Starter) Wed, August 10: * More GUI stuff; Kevin Eye presented a session on how to install modules. Some tips: * You can run the CPAN shell by just running the command 'cpan' on modern perls; * On Windows, it's best to use Active State perl and use ppm to install things. PPM is perl package manager; * Summary for installing a perl module: >perl Makefile.PL >make >make test >sudo make install * Jim B's Perl script for ordering an autobundle: http://perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=455259 ========================================== Jim Brandt Administrative Computing Services University at Buffalo From dmagnuszewski at mandtbank.com Wed Jun 15 19:21:24 2005 From: dmagnuszewski at mandtbank.com (DANIEL MAGNUSZEWSKI) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:21:24 -0400 Subject: [Buffalo-pm] YAPC '05 Message-ID: Did you guys discuss who was going to YAPC, and when? Due to my school schedule, I'm thinking about heading up Sunday and coming back Monday night :-( I'm curious as to whether there is a day pass, or if I need to pay for the entire 3 days. -Dan From john at perlwolf.com Wed Jun 15 20:24:42 2005 From: john at perlwolf.com (John Macdonald) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:24:42 -0400 Subject: [Buffalo-pm] YAPC '05 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200506152324.42245.john@perlwolf.com> Sorry, there are no day rates (but the cost of the entire conference is far less than the day rate at most conferences, and the cost of accomodation *does* depend upon how long you stay, of course). On June 15, 2005 10:21 pm, DANIEL MAGNUSZEWSKI wrote: > Did you guys discuss who was going to YAPC, and when? Due to my school > schedule, I'm thinking about heading up Sunday and coming back Monday > night :-( I'm curious as to whether there is a day pass, or if I need > to pay for the entire 3 days. > > -Dan > > _______________________________________________ > Buffalo-pm mailing list > Buffalo-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/buffalo-pm > > From bpm at binarymojo.net Thu Jun 16 15:03:40 2005 From: bpm at binarymojo.net (Kevin Christopher) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 15:03:40 -0700 Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Buffalo PM Summer Schedule In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B1F73C.8050906@binarymojo.net> Hey Dan and fellow Perl Mongers! Things are going well out here in Arizona. I'm living in Sierra Vista, about and hour's drive outside of Tucson. I was down in Tucson all day yesterday and it was 103 degrees, which didn't feel quite as hot as I was expecting. (Right...) In mid-April I got a job as a junior programmer with a start-up company developing web applications in Perl with Template-Toolkit. (Found the opening on jobs.perl.org, which I thought was very cool). I thought I might be back in Buffalo this month, but that's not going to happen until September now, so I'm going to miss out on all the YAPC fun this year. Hopefully I'll be in town when you guys have your September meeting. BTW: what's the name of the animal on the YAPC::NA 2005 Toronto logo? Is it a Moosel or a Camoose? Kevin DANIEL MAGNUSZEWSKI wrote: >I'd like to hear something about writing a Perl module. Does anyone have >experience with this? > >-Dan > >P.S - Hey Kevin (our Perl embassador to Arizona)! How's things going >out there. You should keep us up to date as to what's going on. > > > > >>>>"Kevin Eye" 06/14/05 2:28 PM >>> >>>> >>>> >In the interest of enticing potential attendees, what's made it on to >the agenda for tomorrow's meeting? > >I hadn't planned out my suggested talk on installing modules yet, but I > >could wing a short version of it if there's nothing arranged. > > - Kevin > >On Jun 7, 2005, at 4:03 PM, Jim Brandt wrote: > > > >>I know, I've been slacking, but here is a proposed schedule at >> >> >last... > > >>Wednesday, June 15 >> >>Wednesday, July 13 >> >>Wednesday, August 10 >> >>Based on some feedback, I've moved the meetings to Wednesday. Most >>people didn't care about the day, but a few didn't like Thursdays, >> >> >so > > >>there you are. >> >>No one had a problem with the location, so can we still get the >> >> >room, > > >>Dan? >> >>Now we need topics! >> >>Some questions to help find topics: >> >>1) Is there anything someone would like to see covered? >> >>2) Could we do a beginner topic each session? Spend maybe 30 minutes >>on it. Info for beginners and others can chime in on other ways to >> >> >do > > >>it, etc. Also, we can rotate who covers the info. >> >>3) Ideas for summer sessions: >> >>* PerlMonks overview; >>* More on GUI programming with Perl; >>* Conference summaries for YAPC and OSCON; >>* Perl 6; >>* Cool modules; >>* Good coding practices with Perl; >>* How to write a Perl module; >>* Installing Perl on Unixy systems and on Windows; >>* Installing Perl modules; >>* Testing; >> >>So if you have any thoughts, please reply with: >> >>* Comments on the proposed days; >> >>* Offers to present at a session (and which one); >> >>* Another comments; >> >>For your reading pleasure: >> >>http://theperlreview.com/ >> >>Final note: Some folks had problems with the digest option on the >>list. I checked the settings and all looked OK, but that doesn't >>explain the problem. This list is *very* low traffic, so I would >>suggest just converting to normal mode. >> >>Thanks, >>Jim >> >> >>========================================== >>Jim Brandt >>Administrative Computing Services >>University at Buffalo >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Buffalo-pm mailing list >>Buffalo-pm at pm.org >>http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/buffalo-pm >> >> >> > > >-- >Kevin Eye >Web Applications Developer >Creative Services and Marketing >University at Buffalo >330 Crofts Hall >Buffalo, NY 14260 >eye at buffalo.edu >phone (716) 645-5000 x1435 >fax (716) 645-3765 > >_______________________________________________ >Buffalo-pm mailing list >Buffalo-pm at pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/buffalo-pm > > >_______________________________________________ >Buffalo-pm mailing list >Buffalo-pm at pm.org >http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/buffalo-pm > > > > > From fhew3 at cogeco.ca Thu Jun 16 21:01:45 2005 From: fhew3 at cogeco.ca (Fulko Hew) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 00:01:45 -0400 Subject: [Buffalo-pm] YAPC volunteers needed Message-ID: <42B24B29.5050309@cogeco.ca> This is just a reminder that we still need volunteers to help out at YAPC. There are still a few seminars that don't have _anybody_ signed up to help. Please don't be frightened by the tasks. They're easy and you'll have plenty of support. But we do need those volunteers! This is your chance for fame and ... Go to the signup sheet at: http://hew.ca/yapc.html click on the various days, and use the volunteer button to sign up for the tasks and seminars that haven't been taken yet. More instructions on how to use the sign-up mechanism and more detailed descriptions of the tasks can be found at: http://to.pm.org/cgi-bin/kwiki/index.pl?VolunteerSignUp From fhew3 at cogeco.ca Thu Jun 16 21:11:47 2005 From: fhew3 at cogeco.ca (Fulko Hew) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 00:11:47 -0400 Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Call for volunteer YAPC proceedings "CD burners" Message-ID: <42B24D83.7080101@cogeco.ca> We are considering pre-burning CDs with the presentation slides (only) of this years YAPC for inclusion in the swag-bag handed out during registration. (Full material including photos and recordings will be made available after the conference is over, but we would like to put something in everyone's bag if we can.) If we get the material in-time, we need someone with the facilities to burn 400+ copies between next Thursday and Sunday. Does anyone have facilities? Does anyone want to volunteer to take on this job? If you feel up to it, send me an email. Fulko From fhew3 at cogeco.ca Thu Jun 16 21:25:25 2005 From: fhew3 at cogeco.ca (Fulko Hew) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 00:25:25 -0400 Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Call (...still...) for YAPC recording equipment Message-ID: <42B250B5.20107@cogeco.ca> This is my second call for volunteered equipment to allow us to record the various sessions during this years YAPC. I'm looking for: a) Three laptops with a CD drive, Ethernet, and 256M memory to act as the audio recording hardware. (So far I have 1 guaranteed and tested, and 2 pledged but untested (Alex... please test them!) b) Three laptops with a CD drive, Ethernet, 256M memory AND firewire, to act as the video recording hardware. (So far I have only 1 guaranteed and tested. I need TWO more!) c) Three 'digital video' cameras that have firewire output and a 'mic' jack input. (So far I have 2 guaranteed and tested, and I need one more.) If I can't get three video recording PCs, then I still want 3 cameras and the loan of a whack of tape to at least record it all for later digitization. Maybe up to 32 hrs worth of tape!. If you can help in any way, send me an email. From glim at mycybernet.net Thu Jun 16 21:53:00 2005 From: glim at mycybernet.net (Gerard Lim) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 00:53 -0400 Subject: [Buffalo-pm] Last-minute reminder -- YAPC::NA 2005 Message-ID: Here's a last reminder about Yet Another Perl Conference, North America (YAPC::NA 2005) http://yapc.org/America In case anyone out there has been sitting on the fence or has been meaning to register but has put it on the backburner until now, here is a final information package. Dates: Mon - Wed June 27 - 29, 2005 (11 days from now!) Location: 89 Chestnut Street, University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada Accommodations ============== Due to recent renegotiations with the conference facility and hotel, 89 Chestnut, there are still a few rooms left. For details on accommodations go to: http://www.yapc.org/America/accommodations-2005.shtml For quick and easy booking: 89 Chestnut Phone: +1-416-977-0707 Conference booking code: perl0626 The base rate is approx. CAD$80/night, which is *great* for downtown Toronto. Add in taxes and in-room high speed internet and it's up to about CAD$95/night. Book yourself to check-in on Sunday the 26th and check-out on the morning of Wednesday the 29th. Conference Registration ======================= Registration is easy and cheap - only USD$85 - see http://yapc.org/America/register-2005.shtml for details or register directly online at http://donate.perlfoundation.org/index.pl?node=registrant%20info&conference_id=423 The schedule is awesome - http://yapc.org/America/schedule-2005/day1.html >From here, click on the "Day 2" and "Day 3" spots near the top to go from page to page. Click on a talk name to get details regarding the talk. Speakers include Larry Wall, Allison Randal, Autrijus Tang, Brian Ingerson, Andy Lester, chromatic, brian d foy, Chip Salzenberg & Dan Sugalski... and many more! [ This message was sent by Gerard Lim on behalf of the YAPC::NA 2005 Conference organizing committee of the Toronto Perl Mongers. Thanks for your patience and support. ]