From martin_jacobs at optusnet.com.au Mon Oct 1 03:35:52 2007 From: martin_jacobs at optusnet.com.au (Martin Jacobs) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 20:35:52 +1000 Subject: [Brisbane-pm] Need some face-to-face help Message-ID: <38FC5044-E2E7-45FA-A122-3411AE298551@optusnet.com.au> Hi Perlmongers, I have got as far as I can with forums and websearches, and I would really appreciate sitting down with somebody to trouble shoot some basic steps. In particular, I am having trouble installing Perl modules on my Mac (its a Darwin system, apparently). I have probably goofed up on some very basic stuff, and I think that sitting down with someone with a bit of knowledge will get me going in the right direction. I'm not trying to build anything special here, and I am trying to stick with the 'standard' installation (Perl 5.8.6) rather than Activestate. Ideally, I would end up with a step-by-step idiots guide to installing Perl modules on an out-of-the-store Mac, using the Bash shell and command line input. Please email me if you can spend an hour or so with me in a week-day evening. I'm willing to travel anywhere around Brisbane to suit, though I live in Camp Hill. Other than my contacts on-line, I don't know who to turn to for help. Regards, Martin Visit my website... http://web.mac.com/martin_jacobs1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/brisbane-pm/attachments/20071001/86ea84e3/attachment.html From jarich at perltraining.com.au Thu Oct 4 04:52:38 2007 From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (Jacinta Richardson) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 21:52:38 +1000 Subject: [Brisbane-pm] OSDC 2007 earlybird registration now open! Message-ID: <4704D406.4000005@perltraining.com.au> Registration for the Open Source Developers' Conference 2007 is now open. http://osdc.com.au/registration/ For non-presenters, the earlybird price is $275 (until October 14th), after that the full conference price is $325. All regular tickets include the conference dinner! Cool & affordable, right? Memory jogger: the OSDC 2007 conference dates are 26-29 November; location: Brisbane, Queensland. Peruse the overview of confirmed sessions at http:// www.cgpublisher.com/conferences/107/web/session_descriptions.html You simply must be there, otherwise you're just not cool, and evil geckos will eat your undies. Cheers, Arjen. -- Arjen Lentz, Owner @ Open Query (http://openquery.com.au/) Based in Brisbane, Australia - ph. +61-7-3103 0809 Open Source Experts, MySQL Specialists Organising Committee, Open Source Developers Conference (http:// osdc.com.au/) Brisbane QLD Australia, 26-29 November 2007 From martin_jacobs at optusnet.com.au Sat Oct 6 06:26:57 2007 From: martin_jacobs at optusnet.com.au (Martin Jacobs) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 23:26:57 +1000 Subject: [Brisbane-pm] Still no Success in Installing Perl Modules on Mac OS X Message-ID: Dear Perlmongers, I find it difficult to believe how difficult this has been. Am I the only person in the entire universe who wants to do a date time calculation for dates before the Epoch (1970 for Mac and Linux, 1901 for Windows)? To recap, it seems that I cannot do all the date/time calculations with the 'standard' Perl on my Mac. The kind of date/time calculation that I want to do is analogous to calculating how many seconds Queen Victoria lived between her birth (say 4:00 pm on 24th May 1854) and her death (say 3:00 am on 22 Jan 1901); the point being that at least one of these date/times are before the Epoch. It seems that the 'standard' Perl can't do this calculation because times and dates before the Epoch simply don't exist. I have got into some private trouble-shooting correspondence with some helpful Perl-Mongers, and I am very thankful for their efforts, but I have come to a dead end. The solution, so I understand, is to install the Perl Module DateTime.pm. However, I am not having any success in installing modules (for reasons that I have explained in other correspondence). We have explored several avenues, for example.. sudo perl ?MCPAN ?e shell install Bundle::CPAN or just CPAN Params::Validate I have tried changing permissions on directories... sudo chmod a+rw /System/Library/Perl/5.8.6/CPAN.pm and even logging in as 'root', and trying everything all over again. But I am getting the same error messages, which end up follows... Running make test Can't test without successful make Running make install make had returned bad status, install seems impossible This is a complete show-stopper, as far as my particular application is concerned, and I don't want to get to the point where I am regretting using Perl in the first place. I thought it would work as a cross platform open source coding language - have I made the wrong decision? If I have made the wrong decision, then I will have to consign about 10 months of work to the trash. Surely, there must be someone out there who has successfully installed Perl modules on a Mac (OS X 10.4.10)? I really need to hear how it is done, from someone who has actually done it. The adage 'there's no reason why it should not work' simply will not do. Regards, Martin Visit my website... http://web.mac.com/martin_jacobs1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/brisbane-pm/attachments/20071006/e8d69b54/attachment.html From stephen at sydney.pm.org Sat Oct 6 07:26:00 2007 From: stephen at sydney.pm.org (Stephen Steneker) Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 00:26:00 +1000 Subject: [Brisbane-pm] Still no Success in Installing Perl Modules on Mac OS X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BF77559-6A89-4812-83FB-C8948C045E4E@sydney.pm.org> > But I am getting the same error messages, which end up follows... > > Running make test > Can't test without successful make > Running make install > make had returned bad status, install seems impossible > > > This is a complete show-stopper, as far as my particular > application is concerned, and I don't want to get to the point > where I am regretting using Perl in the first place. I thought it > would work as a cross platform open source coding language - have I > made the wrong decision? If I have made the wrong decision, then I > will have to consign about 10 months of work to the trash. > > Surely, there must be someone out there who has successfully > installed Perl modules on a Mac (OS X 10.4.10)? Hi Martin, Did you confirm that you do, in fact, have the Developer Tools installed from the OS X DVD? Surely there is a more informative error than the above... but from Terminal I would suggest doing: gcc --version make --version .. both should return a version number, if installed (and would be installed in /usr/bin, which should be in your path). Installation of some modules from CPAN will indeed be impossible without a C compiler ;-). If you definitely have the above utilities, you can also explicitly tell CPAN the location of make since this seems related to your issue, so: sudo perl -MCPAN -e shell o conf make /usr/bin/make o conf commit exit Lastly I would run the install manually to see what the detailed errors are : sudo perl -MCPAN -e shell look DateTime perl Makefile.PL make test > I really need to hear how it is done, from someone who has actually > done it. The adage 'there's no reason why > it should not work' simply will not do. Unfortunately the installation should be about this simple: - install OS X - install Developer Tools - install extra desired modules using CPAN shell If this seems too esoteric for your requirements, I would suggest either revisiting the ActivePerl route (which also didn't seem to work out for you) or possibly switching to a different cross-platform toolset which is better suited for your purposes. You might find something like PHP easier to install .. you would lose out on the richness of modules available from CPAN, but haven't figured out how to install these yet in any case ;-). There are plenty of folks using perl on OS X, but in general with developer tools there is some presumption that you will be able to work out how to drill down to the specific error that is preventing your successful install. Getting perl set up should not be a difficult challenge, but your other attempts with ActivePerl and mucking about with file permissions may also have introduced problems. Pretty hard to guess what else might have gone wrong at this point, but I think since you've spent almost three weeks trying to sort out your install it might be time to move on to something that will let you get on with your project :-D. You did mention 10 months spent developing your application .. without benefit of CPAN, you might find there is a fair bit of functionality you've reinvented. CPAN is definitely one of the main reasons I would recommend using perl .. and essential for any significant applications. Cheers, Stephen From martin_jacobs at optusnet.com.au Sun Oct 7 02:13:16 2007 From: martin_jacobs at optusnet.com.au (Martin Jacobs) Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 19:13:16 +1000 Subject: [Brisbane-pm] Finally Got Some Success in Installing Perl Modules on Mac OS X......Yaaaaay! In-Reply-To: <4BF77559-6A89-4812-83FB-C8948C045E4E@sydney.pm.org> References: <4BF77559-6A89-4812-83FB-C8948C045E4E@sydney.pm.org> Message-ID: <5C3EF345-0118-4841-873A-ABBAB88860BA@optusnet.com.au> Stephen, I checked the developer tools.... Last login: Sat Oct 6 16:05:09 on console Welcome to Darwin! martins-powerbook:~ Martin$ gcc --version powerpc-apple-darwin8-gcc-4.0.0 (GCC) 4.0.0 20041026 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 4061) Copyright (C) 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc. This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. martins-powerbook:~ Martin$ make --version GNU Make 3.80 Copyright (C) 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc. This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. martins-powerbook:~ Martin$ I then did.. sudo perl -MCPAN -e shell o conf make /usr/bin/make o conf commit exit Just to make sure, I turned off the Mac and turned it on again. Which must have done the trick because I then did sudo perl -MCPAN -e shell install DateTime install DateTime::Locale install DateTime::TimeZone Which ended up with... Writing /Library/Perl/5.8.6/darwin-thread-multi-2level/auto/DateTime/ TimeZone/.packlist /usr/bin/make install -- OK Thanks to all who have taken the time to talk me through this. I hope you understand that my frustrations are not directed at you guys, but rather at a process which, as you know, should be simple, but turned out to be nothing but. BTW the 10 months is 10 months of after-hours free time. And I'm not trying to re-invent functionalities, which is why I needed to get to grips with modules to start with. Now, I can get back to the math.... On 07/10/2007, at 12:26 AM, Stephen Steneker wrote: >> But I am getting the same error messages, which end up follows... >> >> Running make test >> Can't test without successful make >> Running make install >> make had returned bad status, install seems impossible >> >> >> This is a complete show-stopper, as far as my particular >> application is concerned, and I don't want to get to the point >> where I am regretting using Perl in the first place. I thought it >> would work as a cross platform open source coding language - have >> I made the wrong decision? If I have made the wrong decision, then >> I will have to consign about 10 months of work to the trash. >> >> Surely, there must be someone out there who has successfully >> installed Perl modules on a Mac (OS X 10.4.10)? > > Hi Martin, > > Did you confirm that you do, in fact, have the Developer Tools > installed from > the OS X DVD? Surely there is a more informative error than the > above... > but from Terminal I would suggest doing: > > gcc --version > make --version > > .. both should return a version number, if installed (and would be > installed > in /usr/bin, which should be in your path). > > Installation of some modules from CPAN will indeed be impossible > without a > C compiler ;-). > > If you definitely have the above utilities, you can also explicitly > tell CPAN > the location of make since this seems related to your issue, so: > sudo perl -MCPAN -e shell > o conf make /usr/bin/make > o conf commit > exit > > Lastly I would run the install manually to see what the detailed > errors are : > sudo perl -MCPAN -e shell > look DateTime > perl Makefile.PL > make test > >> I really need to hear how it is done, from someone who has >> actually done it. The adage 'there's no reason why >> it should not work' simply will not do. > > Unfortunately the installation should be about this simple: > - install OS X > - install Developer Tools > - install extra desired modules using CPAN shell > > If this seems too esoteric for your requirements, I would suggest > either > revisiting the ActivePerl route (which also didn't seem to work out > for you) > or possibly switching to a different cross-platform toolset which > is better > suited for your purposes. You might find something like PHP easier to > install .. you would lose out on the richness of modules available > from > CPAN, but haven't figured out how to install these yet in any > case ;-). > > There are plenty of folks using perl on OS X, but in general with > developer tools there is some presumption that you will be able > to work out how to drill down to the specific error that is preventing > your successful install. Getting perl set up should not be a > difficult > challenge, but your other attempts with ActivePerl and mucking > about with file permissions may also have introduced problems. > > Pretty hard to guess what else might have gone wrong at this point, > but I think since you've spent almost three weeks trying to sort out > your install it might be time to move on to something that will let > you get on with your project :-D. > > You did mention 10 months spent developing your application .. > without benefit of CPAN, you might find there is a fair bit of > functionality you've reinvented. CPAN is definitely one of the > main reasons I would recommend using perl .. and essential > for any significant applications. > > Cheers, > Stephen > Regards, Martin Visit my website... http://web.mac.com/martin_jacobs1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/pipermail/brisbane-pm/attachments/20071007/db85f445/attachment.html From hey.you at mac.com Sun Oct 7 13:22:38 2007 From: hey.you at mac.com (Tony Obermeit) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 06:22:38 +1000 Subject: [Brisbane-pm] Finally Got Some Success in Installing Perl Modules on Mac OS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Martin Glad to see you finally got some success with your installation problem. It was similar problems that I experienced some years back installing the dbi package on linux that started my looking for other options to perl after having been a strong advocate of it for some time. The other problem with perl is deployment of anything more than a simple set of scripts can be problematic, especially compared to the mechanism and standardization one gets with the .jar, .war and .ear mechanisms available with java. So, obviously I decided to switch from perl to Java for any application other than simple scripts. Having made this switch some 7 years ago, where do I position perl / java. I answer this based on a similar question put to randal at a recent Brisbane meeting. My choice of language mostly depends on the complexity of the application, most simply measured by lines of code. If < 10 (or 20 at most) lines of code, any language is fine including shell scripts of various persuasions Over 10 lines up to 100 (or occasionally 200) lines of code, perl or other scripting languages like groovy / python, etc but never shell script. I refer to these as simple scripts. Over 100 lines then I go for Java. If significant UI is involved, particularly graphical, then all bets are off with java. I still like perl for simple scripts but now favour groovy instead which is partly reflective of my preference for java. Learning java after knowing perl fairly well was very hard for me but now I consider it well worth the effort. The package installation issues you've mentioned just never happen with java and you don't have to worry as much about breaking other scripts / applications if you upgrade to new packages in java because it uses dynamic class loading for a much more flexible arrangement than you have with perl. Never have to fight with make as well. I hope such comments aren't treated as unwelcome in this forum, I'm sending them because I went through similar pain to what you did and swore never again. Hearing your pain reminded me of the fact that I don't have that pain any more. Yeah, I still use perl, I think it is a great language but I consider it's appropriate scope to be far narrower than I once did. I also think Java's scope is somewhat narrower also than I once did. Regards Tony From jarich at osdc.com.au Wed Oct 10 22:41:21 2007 From: jarich at osdc.com.au (jarich at osdc.com.au) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:41:21 +1000 (EST) Subject: [Brisbane-pm] OSDC 2007 Program is available Message-ID: <20071011054121.5C431A92C2@teddybear.perltraining.com.au> Dear Brisbane PM members, Registrations are open for the Open Source Developers' Conference 2007: http://www.osdc.com.au/registration/index.html Book before THIS SUNDAY - 14th October to save $50 and get a free conference t-shirt! Key information: 14th October - Early bird date 26th November - Tutorials 27th - 29th November - Technical program 28th November - Google Conference Dinner Royal on the Park Hotel Cnr Alice & Albert Streets Brisbane CBD Queensland The Open Source Developers' Conference is an Australian conference covering talks about software development for open source languages and projects; regardless of operating system. There will be 3-4 streams of talks over the three days of technical program, with combined keynotes at the start of each day. Morning and afternoon teas, and lunch will be provided. The Google Conference Dinner will be held on the night of the 28th November (each full registration includes one ticket (until sold out)). Talks this year include: * "Packaging Perl Applications: From CPAN To Your Project" by Kirrily Robert * "Integrating PHP and Active Directory" by Scott Barnett * "Commercial Open Source with Python: Experiences from the Trenches: Developing a Commercial Python Open Source Project" by Juergen Brendel * "Why would a Java Shop want to use Ruby?" by Keith Pitty * "Unfair advantage - Taking on .net with a world-beating open source stack" by Stuart Guthrie To see more and view the program please visit: http://www.cgpublisher.com/conferences/107/web/program-detail.html Conference keynote presenters include Rusty Russell (opening), Rasmus Lerdorf, Paul Fenwick (dinner), Kimberlee Weatherall, Nat Torkington (closing), and plenaries by Ian Clatworthy and Melissa Draper! You can help us make this conference be the best developers' conference this year just by turning up and participating! We look forward to sharing this great conference with you. If your business would like to benefit from exposure to many of Australia's best open source developers then perhaps you should consider sponsorship. We have a wide range of sponsorship options, to find out more information please visit: http://www.osdc.com.au/sponsors/index.html Many thanks go to our sponsors: Apress, Brisbane PHP, BuilderAU, Common Ground, Google, Linux Magazine, Opengear, Open Query, Red Hat, realestate.com.au, Sun Microsystems, Trolltech, Woodslane, Zac-Ware/Freeway. Jacinta Richardson OSDC Publicity Officer PS: There will be a total of 4 of these messages from me over the next month and a bit. If this is unacceptable, please let me know and I won't send the others to you. From jarich at perltraining.com.au Wed Oct 24 20:08:18 2007 From: jarich at perltraining.com.au (jarich at perltraining.com.au) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:08:18 +1000 (EST) Subject: [Brisbane-pm] OSDC 2007's Tutorial Program Message-ID: <20071025030818.E5DD1A8B96@teddybear.perltraining.com.au> Dear Brisbane PM members, Registrations are open for the Open Source Developers' Conference 2007: http://www.osdc.com.au/registration/index.html The early bird has been partially extended. Book before October 31st to save $30, and to get your free t-shirt. No t-shirts will be available after the 31st October! Key information: 31st October - Extended almost-early bird date 26th November - Tutorials 27th - 29th November - Technical programme 28th November - Google Conference Dinner Royal on the Park Hotel Cnr Alice & Albert Streets Brisbane CBD Queensland The Open Source Developers' Conference is an Australian conference covering talks about software development for open source languages and projects; regardless of operating system. There will be 3-4 streams of talks over the three days of technical programme, with combined keynotes at the start of each day. Morning and afternoon teas, and lunch will be provided. The Google Conference Dinner will be held on the night of the 28th November (each full registration includes one ticket (until sold out)). Tutorial attendance will include a tea break, lunch and printed reference material. Tutorials cost $250 each. Our tutorial program is included below: Room 1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- 9:00am "MySQL Optimisation by Design" by Arjen Lentz 12:30pm Lunch 1:30pm "Advanced SQL for Developers (PostgreSQL)" by Evan Leybourn 5:00pm End --------------------------------------------------------------------- Room 2 --------------------------------------------------------------------- 9:00am "Test Driven Development" by Kirrily Robert 12:30pm Lunch 1:30pm "Getting Started with Bazaar" by Ian Clatworthy 5:00pm End --------------------------------------------------------------------- Room 3 --------------------------------------------------------------------- 9:00am "Incident Response using PyFlag - the Forensic and Log Analysis GUI" by Dr Michael Cohen 12:30pm Lunch 1:30pm "Groovy Tutorial" by Dr Paul W King 5:00pm End --------------------------------------------------------------------- A tea break will occur roughly half way through each tutorial. For more information on what each tutorial covers, please follow the links from the schedule: http://www.cgpublisher.com/conferences/107/web/program-detail.html Prices and information on how to register can be found at: http://www.osdc.com.au/registration/index.html You can help us make this conference be the best developers' conference this year just by turning up and participating! We look forward to sharing this great conference with you. If your business would like to benefit from exposure to many of Australia's best open source developers then perhaps you should consider sponsorship. We have a wide range of sponsorship options, to find out more information please visit: http://www.osdc.com.au/sponsors/index.html Many thanks go to our sponsors: Apress, Brisbane PHP, BuilderAU, Common Ground, Google, Linux Magazine, Opengear, Open Query, Red Hat, realestate.com.au, Sun Microsystems, Trolltech, Woodslane, Zac-Ware/Freeway. Jacinta Richardson OSDC Publicity Officer From stephen at sydney.pm.org Tue Oct 30 04:03:50 2007 From: stephen at sydney.pm.org (Stephen Steneker) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:03:50 +1100 Subject: [Brisbane-pm] perlmonger catch up around OSDC ? Message-ID: Howdy folks, Just curious if someone would be interested in organizing a perl monger catchup in Brisbane to coincide with OSDC? Could be a good opportunity to meet with some folks from Sydney/Melbourne/... ;-). Cheers, Stephen