From walter at frii.com Fri Oct 1 10:30:27 1999 From: walter at frii.com (Walter Pienciak) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:48 2004 Subject: CPAN.pm Message-ID: One of my co-workers asked me, "What CPAN modules do you always install when you're bringing up a new machine?" Hmmm, I thought. The default installation includes a fair bit nowadays. But then I got to thinking how the CPAN.pm module itself has advanced to the point where it makes my life a fair bit easier when installing modules. So here's a basic plug for the use of CPAN.pm. If you're not familiar with it, here are some basics: You can fire it up in command mode by typing perl -MCPAN -e shell (Personally, I have an alias in my .cshrc -- I just type cpan) alias cpan 'perl -MCPAN -e shell' Typing ? gets you some options, but let's say you want to install Foo.pm. It's as easy as cpan> install Foo CPAN.pm checks both CPAN and your own installation to see if it's already installed and up to date. Then -- and this is the cool part, IMO -- it will recursively pull in, build, and install any modules that are dependencies for Foo.pm. Early versions did not do this, and it is a super-duper enhancement. It makes it so much less time- consuming to pull in and check new modules. Walter From llornkcor at llornkcor.com Fri Oct 1 13:11:45 1999 From: llornkcor at llornkcor.com (llornkcor) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:48 2004 Subject: CPAN.pm References: Message-ID: <005f01bf0c38$6c601000$f802f5d1@ship> There is also ppm.bat for those that also use MSWin32, Activestate. It has windows specific modules. And works much the same way. One request - how about using a 'reply-to' so reply's will go to the list, instead of the person that sent it? Works great on the BLUG. LP | One of my co-workers asked me, "What CPAN modules do you | always install when you're bringing up a new machine?" | | Hmmm, I thought. The default installation includes a fair | bit nowadays. But then I got to thinking how the CPAN.pm | module itself has advanced to the point where it makes my | life a fair bit easier when installing modules. | | So here's a basic plug for the use of CPAN.pm. If you're | not familiar with it, here are some basics: | | You can fire it up in command mode by typing | | perl -MCPAN -e shell | | (Personally, I have an alias in my .cshrc -- I just type cpan) | | alias cpan 'perl -MCPAN -e shell' | | Typing ? gets you some options, but let's say you want to | install Foo.pm. It's as easy as | | cpan> install Foo | | CPAN.pm checks both CPAN and your own installation to see | if it's already installed and up to date. Then -- and | this is the cool part, IMO -- it will recursively pull | in, build, and install any modules that are dependencies | for Foo.pm. Early versions did not do this, and it is a | super-duper enhancement. It makes it so much less time- | consuming to pull in and check new modules. | | Walter | From walter at frii.com Fri Oct 1 13:47:17 1999 From: walter at frii.com (Walter Pienciak) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:48 2004 Subject: CPAN.pm In-Reply-To: <005f01bf0c38$6c601000$f802f5d1@ship> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Oct 1999, llornkcor wrote: > There is also ppm.bat for those that also use MSWin32, Activestate. It has > windows specific modules. And works much the same way. > > One request - how about using a 'reply-to' so reply's will go to the list, > instead of the person that sent it? Works great on the BLUG. > LP Okay, that's easy enough. Done. Walter From wpiencia at spadev.stds.ieee.org Wed Oct 6 14:13:43 1999 From: wpiencia at spadev.stds.ieee.org (Walter Pienciak) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:48 2004 Subject: tonight at Casa Alvarez Message-ID: We're all set for 6 PM at Casa Alvarez, 3161 Walnut (at 30th). Reservation is in the name of "Perl Mongers" See you then. Walter From walter at frii.com Thu Oct 7 11:50:19 1999 From: walter at frii.com (Walter Pienciak) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:48 2004 Subject: SUMMARY: first meeting Message-ID: The meeting lasted from about 6 to 8 at Casa Alvarez. The food was pretty good, but the consensus seemed to be that variety was nice, and so we'll be trying somewhere else next time. We came in serendipitously during happy hour -- there were 2-for-1 specials -- the result being that the two of us who ordered pints of Fat Tire each got two mugs. Efficient, but visually jarring (a two-fisted drinker, I am). The waiters were also kept busy refilling water and iced-tea glasses while we downed the chips/salsa. Eight people showed up. The conversations were wide-ranging, and included some basic "who are you" stuff. A "How did you learn Perl?" thread got started but then morphed into a discussion of meteorology. (The general pattern, as I recall, was self-learning via Randal Schwartz's "Learning Perl".) Not everyone there already knows Perl, so I guess the above- referenced book is a resource recommendation. (That, and this list -- questions are good -- and the meetings.) Hmmm. There was a fair amount of Java bashing (fairly informed, not wild-eyed), a discussion on the merits of object-oriented Perl, a question about and then some experiences with DBI, reminiscing about other languages and their common points with Perl. There was an ongoing "life along the Front Range" thread. Lots of talk about Linux, the various distributions, and stories about companies moving significant resources onto that platform. Someone asked about recreational versus professional use of Perl. I don't use it much recreationally, but on the other hand, I learned it recreationally -- and the stuff I used to do for "fun" I now get paid for. So is that recreational or professional? I dunno. I'm sure I forgot a bunch of stuff, and I have to go be productive now. Someone else send more details, if you can remember them. Walter __ "We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." -- Robert Wilensky, University of California From gfa at idiom.com Thu Oct 7 12:15:38 1999 From: gfa at idiom.com (Glenn Ashton) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:48 2004 Subject: SUMMARY: first meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry I missed it. I am a total beginner and am sitting here with my "Learning Perl" book even as I write this. I am sure that I will have some questions and I hope you all will have some answers. Thanks, Glenn Ashton From stevi at frii.com Thu Oct 7 19:57:04 1999 From: stevi at frii.com (Stevi Deter) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:48 2004 Subject: SUMMARY: first meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201bf1128$1ee129a0$799c11d8@cartographers> > a question about and then some experiences with DBI, reminiscing > about other languages and their common points with Perl. There drat! i had to miss you guys because i was battling it out with DBD::Informix. still am, as a matter of fact. don't ever get involved in projects that involve three machines, each with its own sysadmin, each of whom is in a different time zone (and in once case, in a different country; india to be precise). --stevi From jjcohen at pipeline.com Thu Oct 7 15:46:49 1999 From: jjcohen at pipeline.com (Joel Cohen) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:48 2004 Subject: SUMMARY: first meeting References: Message-ID: <37FD06B9.A6C02BF3@pipeline.com> Walter Pienciak wrote: > The meeting lasted from about 6 to 8 at Casa Alvarez. > The food was pretty good, but the consensus seemed to be > that variety was nice, and so we'll be trying somewhere > else next time. > > We came in serendipitously during happy hour -- there were > 2-for-1 specials -- the result being that the two of us who > ordered pints of Fat Tire each got two mugs. Efficient, but > visually jarring (a two-fisted drinker, I am). The waiters > were also kept busy refilling water and iced-tea glasses while > we downed the chips/salsa. > > Eight people showed up. The conversations were wide-ranging, > and included some basic "who are you" stuff. A "How did you > learn Perl?" thread got started but then morphed into a > discussion of meteorology. (The general pattern, as I recall, > was self-learning via Randal Schwartz's "Learning Perl".) > Not everyone there already knows Perl, so I guess the above- > referenced book is a resource recommendation. (That, and this > list -- questions are good -- and the meetings.) > > Hmmm. There was a fair amount of Java bashing (fairly informed, > not wild-eyed), a discussion on the merits of object-oriented Perl, > a question about and then some experiences with DBI, reminiscing > about other languages and their common points with Perl. There > was an ongoing "life along the Front Range" thread. Lots of > talk about Linux, the various distributions, and stories about > companies moving significant resources onto that platform. > > Someone asked about recreational versus professional use of Perl. > I don't use it much recreationally, but on the other hand, I > learned it recreationally -- and the stuff I used to do for > "fun" I now get paid for. So is that recreational or professional? > > I dunno. I'm sure I forgot a bunch of stuff, and I have to go be > productive now. Someone else send more details, if you can remember > them. > > Walter > > __ > "We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could > produce the Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the > Internet, we know this is not true." > -- Robert Wilensky, University of California It ' simply not true that a million monkeys could reproduce the works of Shakespeare. The fact is, they probably couldn't do better than a made-for-tv movie. From walter at frii.com Fri Oct 8 10:00:05 1999 From: walter at frii.com (Walter Pienciak) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:48 2004 Subject: SUMMARY: first meeting In-Reply-To: <37FD06B9.A6C02BF3@pipeline.com> Message-ID: Hi, Another thing I remembered. A brief conversation about training, and the Usenix conferences came up. Here are some URLs: http://www.usenix.org/events/usits99/ nothing about basic Perl, but it's here in Boulder next week http://www.usenix.org/events/lisa99/ a super, super conference if you do stuff related to sysadminning in a Unix environment Walter From walter at frii.com Fri Oct 8 13:00:51 1999 From: walter at frii.com (Walter Pienciak) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:48 2004 Subject: question on recruiters and list/group policy Message-ID: Hi, I have a question in hand about our policies on tech recruiters: Is it okay for them to come to meetings and talk about openings? Is it okay for them to post job openings on this list? Is it okay for them to "sponsor in some way"? This is a topic that definitely did not come up at the first meeting, so how 'bout it? Recruiters -- love 'em or hate 'em? parasite or symbiote; hero or devil-spawn? List policy? Everyone has a stake in this, so please kick in an opinion. Walter From gfa at idiom.com Fri Oct 8 13:12:09 1999 From: gfa at idiom.com (Glenn Ashton) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:49 2004 Subject: question on recruiters and list/group policy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think that recruiters are o.k. with the following caveats: 1) The focus is Perl. If a recruiter can participate without being disruptive, great. 2) Ethics. Only ethical recruiters should be permitted to participate. -Glenn Ashton From millsj at euclid.Colorado.EDU Fri Oct 8 13:19:05 1999 From: millsj at euclid.Colorado.EDU (Jim Mills) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:49 2004 Subject: question on recruiters and list/group policy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991008121905.008478b0@euclid.colorado.edu> If they're buying, not selling, then its got my vote (however, it probably should be only 10 minutes max, otherwise its a job recruiting mtg, not a Perl mtg). ... Jim At 12:00 PM 10/8/99 -0600, you wrote: >Hi, > >I have a question in hand about our policies on tech recruiters: > >Is it okay for them to come to meetings and talk about openings? >Is it okay for them to post job openings on this list? >Is it okay for them to "sponsor in some way"? > >This is a topic that definitely did not come up at the first meeting, >so how 'bout it? Recruiters -- love 'em or hate 'em? parasite or >symbiote; hero or devil-spawn? List policy? > >Everyone has a stake in this, so please kick in an opinion. > >Walter > > > Jim Mills Office Manager Mathematics Department University of Colorado Campus Box 395 Boulder, Colorado 80309 Phone: (303) 492-7256 Fax: (303) 492-7707 Email: Millsj@euclid.Colorado.EDU http://www.Colorado.EDU/math/ From millsj at euclid.Colorado.EDU Fri Oct 8 13:21:15 1999 From: millsj at euclid.Colorado.EDU (Jim Mills) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:49 2004 Subject: question on recruiters and list/group policy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991008122115.0085e5c0@euclid.colorado.edu> >2) Ethics. Only ethical recruiters should be permitted to participate. How do you know (is it in the genes? Does it show?)? Jim Mills Office Manager Mathematics Department University of Colorado Campus Box 395 Boulder, Colorado 80309 Phone: (303) 492-7256 Fax: (303) 492-7707 Email: Millsj@euclid.Colorado.EDU http://www.Colorado.EDU/math/ From pls at bighorn.dr.lucent.com Fri Oct 8 13:58:02 1999 From: pls at bighorn.dr.lucent.com (Suppes, Patrick) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:49 2004 Subject: question on recruiters and list/group policy Message-ID: <8CA3BC4DEF5AD2118B2600A0C959B33801F6A58E@drexch1.dr.lucent.com> I've never been in a mode where the tech recruiters were actively visible in a tech group. My $.02 is they are welcome, particularly if they can contribute to the discussions related to the uses of perl, and what employers are seeking. If they get the floor, I suspect they will probably want to plug themselves or their company - and I'm not too thrilled about that. Given our size (8 or so active members) the recruiters would probably not be a bad thing. I would request they not use the group time to disparage other recruiters or plug specific openings. (Err, maybe I should rephrase that to be advertise specific opportunities). Posting openings to the group? Fine. I have two caveats. Be sure that they recognize that posting to the group is a privilege that can be revoked, and ask them to refrain from posting more frequently than weekly. (Others with more experience with obnoxious recruiters may have more to say about this). Group sponsor? If the sponsorship implies control or shared liabilities, I'd pass. If sponsorship means they are willing to help foot the bill for a meeting or event, I'd listen. My paranoia relates to the issues of control - I would rather pass on the opportunities for sponsorship than have the group be told to support specific sponsor-related interests. Pat > -----Original Message----- > From: Walter Pienciak [SMTP:walter@frii.com] > Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 12:01 PM > To: boulder-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org > Subject: question on recruiters and list/group policy > > Hi, > > I have a question in hand about our policies on tech recruiters: > > Is it okay for them to come to meetings and talk about openings? > Is it okay for them to post job openings on this list? > Is it okay for them to "sponsor in some way"? > > This is a topic that definitely did not come up at the first meeting, > so how 'bout it? Recruiters -- love 'em or hate 'em? parasite or > symbiote; hero or devil-spawn? List policy? > > Everyone has a stake in this, so please kick in an opinion. > > Walter From phil at sysmgrs.com Fri Oct 8 14:23:10 1999 From: phil at sysmgrs.com (Phil Hildebrand) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:49 2004 Subject: question on recruiters and list/group policy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think posting to the list is a great idea, ( I see positions on BLUG list every so often). I don't think it would be as appropriate in a meeting since the meetings are ususally technical in nature, unless there were a special meeting with a discussion on 'whats out there for perl' or something. I do believe that any postings to the list should be for perl-specific type openings/jobs/contracts, however. Since I'm located in Littleton, I probably won't make the meetings so often, so I wouldn't weight my vote to heavily on the meeting aspect. Phil > Is it okay for them to come to meetings and talk about openings? Is it > okay for them to post job openings on this list? Is it okay for them to ============================ Phil Hildebrand Sr. Consultant Unix Systems Managers, Inc. Phone: 303-797-6477 ============================ From phil at sysmgrs.com Fri Oct 8 14:34:52 1999 From: phil at sysmgrs.com (Phil Hildebrand) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:49 2004 Subject: DBperl/oraperl Message-ID: I havn't done much with perl and databases, but I was wondering a few things... What's the best interface to use with Oracle and Perl? It sounds like oraperl only works with perl4. We have an Oracle 8 database running on Linux, and want to start converting some perl/gdbm based apps to perl/oracle. Any suggestions? Thanks ============================ Phil Hildebrand Sr. Consultant Unix Systems Managers, Inc. Phone: 303-797-6477 ============================ From walter at frii.com Fri Oct 8 14:34:37 1999 From: walter at frii.com (Walter Pienciak) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:49 2004 Subject: DBperl/oraperl In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Oct 1999, Phil Hildebrand wrote: > > I havn't done much with perl and databases, but I was wondering a few > things... > > What's the best interface to use with Oracle and Perl? It sounds like > oraperl only works with perl4. > > We have an Oracle 8 database running on Linux, and want to start > converting some perl/gdbm based apps to perl/oracle. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks > > ============================ > Phil Hildebrand > Sr. Consultant > Unix Systems Managers, Inc. > Phone: 303-797-6477 > ============================ > Hi, I also have some perl/gdbm stuff, and I'm looking very hard at DBI. There's a homepage at http://www.symbolstone.org/technology/perl/DBI/index.html Walter From wallen at boulder.nist.gov Fri Oct 8 14:44:12 1999 From: wallen at boulder.nist.gov (Wayde Allen) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:49 2004 Subject: question on recruiters and list/group policy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Oct 1999, Phil Hildebrand wrote: > I think posting to the list is a great idea, ( I see positions on BLUG > list every so often). Yes, I allow job postings to the BLUG list, but only if they are topical and don't become a nuisance. I only remember one instance where I scolded a guy for posting irrelevant material. One thing that kind of helps to limit this activity is that recruiters don't usually seem to be interested in subscribing to the lists. They only want to broadcast their job descriptions. In the case of BLUG they tend to contact me off line to see about getting the word out, so I get to filter the messages. > I don't think it would be as appropriate in a meeting since the meetings > are usually technical in nature, unless there were a special meeting > with a discussion on `what's out there for perl' or something. I allow most anyone to make announcements at the BLUG meeting. Again they usually contact me first. It isn't uncommon for someone to put out flyers, and then announce their presence and the location of the flyers. A short announcement is OK, but presentations are a different matter. > I do believe that any postings to the list should be for perl-specific > type openings/jobs/contracts, however. I'd second that! - Wayde (wallen@boulder.nist.gov) From pls at bighorn.dr.lucent.com Fri Oct 8 15:00:54 1999 From: pls at bighorn.dr.lucent.com (Suppes, Patrick) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:49 2004 Subject: DBperl/oraperl Message-ID: <8CA3BC4DEF5AD2118B2600A0C959B33801F6A58F@drexch1.dr.lucent.com> I have been using the Perl DBI interface to access an Oracle 8 instance for a while now and I have no complaints. The machine I am using is some variation from SUN, running a Solaris OS. I think the OraPerl interface is dead. In Perl's early days, the various database vendors wrote their own extentions to Perl, enabling Perl to access their implementation of SQL. OraPerl was the permutation for Oracle. DBI is/was an attempt to create a "standard" set of interfaces without regard to the underlying database (DBD, in Perl lingo). For my limited experience, I have been able to do whatever I needed using DBI. The interface is faster than I expected. The unix man page for DBI contains enough information to get the process rolling. A couple of high-points. A) When connecting, set RaiseError=1 . This way all your SQL commands that fail are forced to raise exceptions, protecting you from that one time when you "forget" to check the return codes. The error text is in Oracle-ese, which, if not clear, is clearer than the single numeric error code numbers. B) If you are doing updates, you probably want to set AutoCommit=0 . This turns off the feature where changes are automatically committed, and allows you to do your own transaction control. Patrick Suppes Ph: (303) 538 2445 > -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Hildebrand [SMTP:phil@sysmgrs.com] > Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 1:35 PM > To: BPML > Subject: DBperl/oraperl > > > I havn't done much with perl and databases, but I was wondering a few > things... > > What's the best interface to use with Oracle and Perl? It sounds like > oraperl only works with perl4. > > We have an Oracle 8 database running on Linux, and want to start > converting some perl/gdbm based apps to perl/oracle. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks > > ============================ > Phil Hildebrand > Sr. Consultant > Unix Systems Managers, Inc. > Phone: 303-797-6477 > ============================ From gfa at idiom.com Fri Oct 8 15:01:04 1999 From: gfa at idiom.com (Glenn Ashton) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:49 2004 Subject: question on recruiters and list/group policy In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19991008122115.0085e5c0@euclid.colorado.edu> Message-ID: You know an ethical recruiter by his or her fruit. You can't know up front other than to ask some questions. -Glenn Ashton From jjcohen at pipeline.com Fri Oct 8 13:20:52 1999 From: jjcohen at pipeline.com (Joel Cohen) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:49 2004 Subject: DBperl/oraperl References: Message-ID: <37FE3604.89733951@pipeline.com> Walter Pienciak wrote: > On Fri, 8 Oct 1999, Phil Hildebrand wrote: > > > > > I havn't done much with perl and databases, but I was wondering a few > > things... > > > > What's the best interface to use with Oracle and Perl? It sounds like > > oraperl only works with perl4. > > > > We have an Oracle 8 database running on Linux, and want to start > > converting some perl/gdbm based apps to perl/oracle. > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > Thanks > > > > ============================ > > Phil Hildebrand > > Sr. Consultant > > Unix Systems Managers, Inc. > > Phone: 303-797-6477 > > ============================ > > > > Hi, > > I also have some perl/gdbm stuff, and I'm looking very hard at DBI. > There's a homepage at > > http://www.symbolstone.org/technology/perl/DBI/index.html > > Walter The DBI interface should work with Perl5 From ahostma at zedd.peakpeak.com Fri Oct 8 16:53:14 1999 From: ahostma at zedd.peakpeak.com (Art Hostmark) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:49 2004 Subject: question on recruiters and list/group policy In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 08 Oct 1999 13:23:10 MDT." Message-ID: <19991008215314.740.qmail@zedd.peakpeak.com> I guess I would generally approve of occasional postings to the mail list regarding openings appropriate to the group. Meetings, maybe a brief announcment if they were coming to participate in the meeting in other ways. -- <<>> To hack, is to live. -- DKH =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Art Hostmark From ahostma at zedd.peakpeak.com Fri Oct 8 17:08:49 1999 From: ahostma at zedd.peakpeak.com (Art Hostmark) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:49 2004 Subject: DBperl/oraperl In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 08 Oct 1999 13:34:37 MDT." Message-ID: <19991008220849.1338.qmail@zedd.peakpeak.com> I have used DBI/DBD/Postgres in the past and it was adequate to the task. I am starting on a project that will be a somewhat more complex database app which I intend to use the same tools. There are actively supported interfaces for Oracle, Informix, mySQL, Postgres, and several others. Here is a link with information about the DBI/DBD mailing lists. http://www.isc.org/view.cgi?/services/mailing-lists/dbi-lists.phtml > On Fri, 8 Oct 1999, Phil Hildebrand wrote: > > > > > I havn't done much with perl and databases, but I was wondering a few > > things... > > > > What's the best interface to use with Oracle and Perl? It sounds like > > oraperl only works with perl4. > > > > We have an Oracle 8 database running on Linux, and want to start > > converting some perl/gdbm based apps to perl/oracle. > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > Thanks > > > > ============================ > > Phil Hildebrand > > Sr. Consultant > > Unix Systems Managers, Inc. > > Phone: 303-797-6477 > > ============================ > > > > Hi, > > I also have some perl/gdbm stuff, and I'm looking very hard at DBI. > There's a homepage at > > http://www.symbolstone.org/technology/perl/DBI/index.html > > Walter -- <<>> Your work, no matter how brilliant, becomes valuable to others only in so far as you communicate it to them. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Art Hostmark From walter at frii.com Fri Oct 15 16:42:42 1999 From: walter at frii.com (Walter Pienciak) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:49 2004 Subject: question on recruiters and list/group policy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, I've been "away" at the USITS conference (wow, great papers and conversations), but I guess everyone who cares has kicked in their opinion by now and I can just boil down the comments into a policy. Here goes: boulder-pm-list is for Perl-related discussion. General announcements likely to be of interest to most group members are welcome. Occasional job postings closely related to Perl are acceptable. If abuses begin to occur (and we reserve the right to redefine "abuse" as consensus dictates), we'll take the necessary steps to stop it. (Of course, only *really stupid* recruiters would deliberately provoke/alienate the people they're trying to recruit . . . but you never know. There's a lot of strange thinking out there.) Recruiters are not scalar quantities, and we won't classify them as such. If you have a legitimate interest in Perl, you're welcome on the mailing list and at any of our meetings, regardless of your "day job". Any person who meets the above criteria and wants to pick up the tab at a meeting is welcome to do so. Walter From mstretchberry at mindspring.com Fri Oct 15 17:18:08 1999 From: mstretchberry at mindspring.com (mstretchberry@mindspring.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:49 2004 Subject: question on recruiters and list/group policy Message-ID: <001a01bf175b$2a69c1e0$cbe0aec7@oem> Walter - thanks for your efforts - and this may class me as "really stupid" recruiter - but what do you mean by "recruiters are not scalar quantities"? :-) Marcy Stretchberry The Complete Programmer Network 3801 E Florida #400 Denver 80210 mstretchberry@programmer.net www.completeprogrammer.net office: 303/758-7347 fax: 303/758-7605 cell: 303/726-5010 res: 303/733-0070 -----Original Message----- From: Walter Pienciak To: boulder-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org Date: Friday, October 15, 1999 3:45 PM Subject: Re: question on recruiters and list/group policy >Hi, > >I've been "away" at the USITS conference (wow, great papers and >conversations), but I guess everyone who cares has kicked in their >opinion by now and I can just boil down the comments into a policy. > >Here goes: > >boulder-pm-list is for Perl-related discussion. General announcements >likely to be of interest to most group members are welcome. Occasional >job postings closely related to Perl are acceptable. > >If abuses begin to occur (and we reserve the right to redefine "abuse" >as consensus dictates), we'll take the necessary steps to stop it. >(Of course, only *really stupid* recruiters would deliberately >provoke/alienate the people they're trying to recruit . . . but you >never know. There's a lot of strange thinking out there.) > >Recruiters are not scalar quantities, and we won't classify them as >such. If you have a legitimate interest in Perl, you're welcome on >the mailing list and at any of our meetings, regardless of your "day >job". > >Any person who meets the above criteria and wants to pick up the >tab at a meeting is welcome to do so. > >Walter > > From davek at saturn5.com Fri Oct 15 17:31:47 1999 From: davek at saturn5.com (the yayster) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:49 2004 Subject: question on recruiters and list/group policy References: <001a01bf175b$2a69c1e0$cbe0aec7@oem> Message-ID: <3807AB53.AF4D3F37@saturn5.com> i guess that he is saying that you would be the else clause in an if statement. if($recruiter){ #will not be run } else { #hi there } mstretchberry@mindspring.com wrote: > Walter - thanks for your efforts - and this may class me as "really stupid" > recruiter - but what do you mean by "recruiters are not scalar quantities"? > :-) > > Marcy Stretchberry > The Complete Programmer Network > 3801 E Florida #400 Denver 80210 > mstretchberry@programmer.net > www.completeprogrammer.net > office: 303/758-7347 fax: 303/758-7605 > cell: 303/726-5010 res: 303/733-0070 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Walter Pienciak > To: boulder-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org > > Date: Friday, October 15, 1999 3:45 PM > Subject: Re: question on recruiters and list/group policy > > >Hi, > > > >I've been "away" at the USITS conference (wow, great papers and > >conversations), but I guess everyone who cares has kicked in their > >opinion by now and I can just boil down the comments into a policy. > > > >Here goes: > > > >boulder-pm-list is for Perl-related discussion. General announcements > >likely to be of interest to most group members are welcome. Occasional > >job postings closely related to Perl are acceptable. > > > >If abuses begin to occur (and we reserve the right to redefine "abuse" > >as consensus dictates), we'll take the necessary steps to stop it. > >(Of course, only *really stupid* recruiters would deliberately > >provoke/alienate the people they're trying to recruit . . . but you > >never know. There's a lot of strange thinking out there.) > > > >Recruiters are not scalar quantities, and we won't classify them as > >such. If you have a legitimate interest in Perl, you're welcome on > >the mailing list and at any of our meetings, regardless of your "day > >job". > > > >Any person who meets the above criteria and wants to pick up the > >tab at a meeting is welcome to do so. > > > >Walter > > > > From walter at frii.com Fri Oct 15 17:42:00 1999 From: walter at frii.com (Walter Pienciak) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:49 2004 Subject: question on recruiters and list/group policy In-Reply-To: <001a01bf175b$2a69c1e0$cbe0aec7@oem> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Oct 1999 mstretchberry@mindspring.com wrote: > Walter - thanks for your efforts - and this may class me as "really stupid" > recruiter - but what do you mean by "recruiters are not scalar quantities"? > :-) Hi, Scalar is a mathematical/technical term referring to something that has one dimension only. In other words, it would be unfair to make a simplistic, blanket judgment of "recruiters". I wouldn't characterize you or anyone else as "really stupid" because you haven't come across the term "scalar" before. My idea of a really stupid recruiter is one who abuses a list (knowingly or not), is told that they are displeasing the list members (and why), and then continues to argue on the list that they are right and everyone else on the list is wrong -- and then wonders why no one seems interested in working with them. Believe it or not, this happens. (And if I thought you were like that, I'd have just said "no" in response to your first query and ended the matter there.) Walter From bmozart at frii.com Sat Oct 16 12:55:22 1999 From: bmozart at frii.com (Boy Mozart) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:49 2004 Subject: question on recruiters and list/group policy In-Reply-To: <3807AB53.AF4D3F37@saturn5.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Oct 1999, the yayster wrote: > i guess that he is saying that you would be the else clause in an if > statement. > > if($recruiter){ > #will not be run > } else { > #hi there > > } That's good. Since I read the original message I've been trying to decide whether he meant recruiters were arrays or hashes. It's been a very disturbing morning. > mstretchberry@mindspring.com wrote: > > > Walter - thanks for your efforts - and this may class me as "really stupid" > > recruiter [snip] Don't be so hard on yourself. -Randy. From stanczyk at pcisys.net Mon Oct 18 11:11:04 1999 From: stanczyk at pcisys.net (Mike Stanczyk) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:49 2004 Subject: question on recruiters and list/group policy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Oct 1999, Boy Mozart wrote: > That's good. Since I read the original message I've been trying to decide > whether he meant recruiters were arrays or hashes. It's been a very > disturbing morning. > > -Randy. > Somehow the following generates many errors when I think about it: $new_job = $recruiter{"good job quick"} $new_job = $recruiter{"good job"} $new_job = $recruiter{"quick, job"} $new_job = $recruiter{"any job"} Can you tell that recruiters haven't done that well for me? ;-) Mike From mstretchberry at mindspring.com Mon Oct 18 15:48:36 1999 From: mstretchberry at mindspring.com (mstretchberry@mindspring.com) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:58:49 2004 Subject: question on recruiters and list/group policy Message-ID: <007701bf19aa$268d6a80$0be2aec7@oem> On Sat, 16 Oct 1999, Boy Mozart wrote: > That's good. Since I read the original message I've been trying to decide > whether he meant recruiters were arrays or hashes. It's been a very > disturbing morning. > > -Randy. > Somehow the following generates many errors when I think about it: $new_job = $recruiter{"good job quick"} $new_job = $recruiter{"good job"} $new_job = $recruiter{"quick, job"} $new_job = $recruiter{"any job"} Can you tell that recruiters haven't done that well for me? ;-) Mike OK you guys...I think I've taken enough abuse here - I just asked a question! We're a small company, started and owned by a previous programmer - our motto "we're different - we're honest". So gimme a chance - I can give references - honest! Marcy Stretchberry The Complete Programmer Network mstretchberry@programmer.net www.completeprogrammer.net office: 303/758-7347 fax: 303/758-7605 cell: 303/726-5010 res: 303/733-0070