From swm at swmcc.com Sun Sep 1 08:48:30 2002 From: swm at swmcc.com (Stephen McCullough) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Books For Review In-Reply-To: <20020830153819.GA30065@soto.kasei.com>; from tony@kasei.com on Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 04:38:19PM +0100 References: <20020830153819.GA30065@soto.kasei.com> Message-ID: <20020901144830.A31336@gandalf.swmcc.com> > Teach Yourself Perl in 21 Days If no-one else wants this I will review it. Cheers, -- Stephen McCullough http://www.swmcc.com Homer: You're going to love Cuba, Marge. They've got shredded pork everywhere . From tony at kasei.com Sun Sep 1 09:35:13 2002 From: tony at kasei.com (Tony Bowden) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Books For Review In-Reply-To: <20020901144830.A31336@gandalf.swmcc.com> References: <20020830153819.GA30065@soto.kasei.com> <20020901144830.A31336@gandalf.swmcc.com> Message-ID: <20020901143513.GA14854@soto.kasei.com> On Sun, Sep 01, 2002 at 02:48:30PM +0100, Stephen McCullough wrote: > > Teach Yourself Perl in 21 Days > If no-one else wants this I will review it. Done. Tony From jasper at guideguide.com Mon Sep 2 04:53:46 2002 From: jasper at guideguide.com (Jasper McCrea) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Books For Review References: <20020830153819.GA30065@soto.kasei.com> <20020901144830.A31336@gandalf.swmcc.com> Message-ID: <3D73352A.8FFDDF21@guideguide.com> Stephen McCullough wrote: > > > Teach Yourself Perl in 21 Days > > If no-one else wants this I will review it. > I can't believe no one made a joke at Stephen's expense. Jasper -- Make it fast, but sexy. And when you're done, you say 'That was a nice tea-party' From tony at kasei.com Mon Sep 2 10:53:24 2002 From: tony at kasei.com (Tony Bowden) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Meetings page Message-ID: <20020902155324.GA26429@soto.kasei.com> Our current 'previous meetings' page (http://belfast.pm.org/meetings/previous.html) seems to have lost all the meetings between June and December last year. Bizarrely the Google cache of this page (http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:c5bqIqh3ZS8C:belfast.pm.org/talks/) _only_ has those missing ones ... Tony From tony at kasei.com Mon Sep 2 10:55:55 2002 From: tony at kasei.com (Tony Bowden) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Meetings page In-Reply-To: <20020902155324.GA26429@soto.kasei.com> References: <20020902155324.GA26429@soto.kasei.com> Message-ID: <20020902155555.GA26730@soto.kasei.com> On Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 04:53:24PM +0100, Tony Bowden wrote: > Our current 'previous meetings' page > (http://belfast.pm.org/meetings/previous.html) seems to have lost all > the meetings between June and December last year. > Bizarrely the Google cache of this page (http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:c5bqIqh3ZS8C:belfast.pm.org/talks/) _only_ has those missing ones ... Ah. These are two different pages. One is "meetings" and the other is "talks". This is rather confusing ... Perhaps the meetings page should reference the talks page? Tony From wesley at yelsew.com Tue Sep 3 05:51:12 2002 From: wesley at yelsew.com (Wesley Darlington) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: This eve... Message-ID: <20020903105112.GA76030@paat.pair.com> Hi Folks, So, is everybody else looking forward to 7:00pm this eve in Jury's...? :-), Wesley. From marty+belfast-pm at kasei.com Tue Sep 3 06:38:49 2002 From: marty+belfast-pm at kasei.com (Marty Pauley) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Books For Review In-Reply-To: <20020831084453.GA4788@soto.kasei.com> References: <20020830153819.GA30065@soto.kasei.com> <20020830155907.GA2593@futureless.org> <20020830213638.GA9661@deeden.co.uk> <20020831084453.GA4788@soto.kasei.com> Message-ID: <20020903113849.GL26790@soto.kasei.com> On Sat Aug 31 09:44:53 2002, Tony wrote: > Well, there's no reason whatsoever that you can't take it after him, and > write a second review of it! Multiple reviews of the same book is a good > thing! Yes, second reviews are a good thing. We need a second review of this Embedding and Extending Perl: I like this book, but I've messed with the Perl internals before; we need a review by someone who hasn't. -- Marty -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 212 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/belfast-pm/attachments/20020903/748d3efa/attachment.bin From russell-belfast-pm at futureless.org Tue Sep 3 07:26:14 2002 From: russell-belfast-pm at futureless.org (Russell Matbouli) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: This eve... In-Reply-To: <20020903105112.GA76030@paat.pair.com> References: <20020903105112.GA76030@paat.pair.com> Message-ID: <20020903122614.GC25744@futureless.org> On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 06:51:12AM -0400, Wesley Darlington wrote: > So, is everybody else looking forward to 7:00pm this eve in Jury's...? I've printed out the Apocalyspses and Exegesii (bound to be latin, isn't it?) in preparation for this evening. Got to run, I've got a lot of reading to do :) -- Russell Matbouli | russell@futureless.org | Don't stop. You can sleep when you're dead. PGP KeyID: 0x3CA84CF4 | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/belfast-pm/attachments/20020903/8a369a02/attachment.bin From andrew at rivendale.net Tue Sep 3 07:42:44 2002 From: andrew at rivendale.net (Andrew Wilson) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: This eve... In-Reply-To: <20020903122614.GC25744@futureless.org> References: <20020903105112.GA76030@paat.pair.com> <20020903122614.GC25744@futureless.org> Message-ID: <20020903124244.GB26591@rivendale.net> On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 01:26:14PM +0100, Russell Matbouli wrote: > On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 06:51:12AM -0400, Wesley Darlington wrote: > > So, is everybody else looking forward to 7:00pm this eve in Jury's...? > > I've printed out the Apocalyspses and Exegesii (bound to be latin, isn't > it?) in preparation for this evening. Got to run, I've got a lot of > reading to do :) I think they're greek words. andrew it's all greek to me wilson -- Cancer: (June 22 - July 22) Your prayers have finally been answered. Unfortunately, they're your prayers from 20 years ago. Start looking for a place to put all the ponies. From andrew at rivendale.net Tue Sep 3 10:04:10 2002 From: andrew at rivendale.net (Andrew Wilson) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: This eve... In-Reply-To: <20020903105112.GA76030@paat.pair.com> References: <20020903105112.GA76030@paat.pair.com> Message-ID: <20020903150410.GC26591@rivendale.net> On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 06:51:12AM -0400, Wesley Darlington wrote: > Hi Folks, > > So, is everybody else looking forward to 7:00pm this eve in Jury's...? I certainly am[1]. andrew [1] I can't help feeling this should have a Stanley on the end of the sentance. -- Cancer: (June 22 - July 22) You will be chained to a rock, upon which eagles will devour your liver for all eternity, after you steal the secret of a great marinara sauce from the gods. From joe at benburb.demon.co.uk Tue Sep 3 08:15:52 2002 From: joe at benburb.demon.co.uk (joe mc cool) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Books For Review References: <20020830153819.GA30065@soto.kasei.com> <20020830155907.GA2593@futureless.org> <20020830213638.GA9661@deeden.co.uk> <20020831084453.GA4788@soto.kasei.com> <20020903113849.GL26790@soto.kasei.com> Message-ID: <3D74B608.1952FBF@benburb.demon.co.uk> Marty Pauley wrote: > On Sat Aug 31 09:44:53 2002, Tony wrote: > > Well, there's no reason whatsoever that you can't take it after him, and > > write a second review of it! Multiple reviews of the same book is a good > > thing! Er, my understanding (and considerable experience) of book reviewing is that the reviewer gets to keep his copy. No ? -- Joe Mc Cool ======================================================================== Tangent Computer Research BT71 7LN (www.tangent-research.com) voice:(44)2837-548074fax:(44)-870-0520185 The more you say the less the better. From marty+belfast-pm at kasei.com Tue Sep 3 11:30:36 2002 From: marty+belfast-pm at kasei.com (Marty Pauley) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Books For Review In-Reply-To: <3D74B608.1952FBF@benburb.demon.co.uk> References: <20020830153819.GA30065@soto.kasei.com> <20020830155907.GA2593@futureless.org> <20020830213638.GA9661@deeden.co.uk> <20020831084453.GA4788@soto.kasei.com> <20020903113849.GL26790@soto.kasei.com> <3D74B608.1952FBF@benburb.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <20020903163036.GM26790@soto.kasei.com> On Tue Sep 3 14:15:52 2002, joe mc cool wrote: > > On Sat Aug 31 09:44:53 2002, Tony wrote: > > > Well, there's no reason whatsoever that you can't take it after him, and > > > write a second review of it! Multiple reviews of the same book is a good > > > thing! > > Er, my understanding (and considerable experience) of book reviewing is that > the reviewer gets to keep his copy. > > No ? Yes, but the reviewer is Belfast.pm, so the society keeps the books. -- Marty -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 212 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/belfast-pm/attachments/20020903/a294d1a6/attachment.bin From mharrigan at computing.dundee.ac.uk Tue Sep 3 20:46:53 2002 From: mharrigan at computing.dundee.ac.uk (Mark Harrigan) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Books for a relative Perl newbie Message-ID: <1031104019.32663.8.camel@faraday> I'm considering learning Perl and would like some recommendations on what books would be good to start with. I'm aiming to learn it for use in web programming ie mod_perl so any books that concentrated on that would be good. Or should I just learn it in a general way with something like Programming Perl and apply that to my web design ideas? If it's of any use I've learnt a bit of Perl already but only really basic stuff.(Chapter one of Learning Perl sort of thing and that was a while ago) I'm competant in C and C++ programming and can bash out some VB if forced to at uni.:) -- ===================== Mark Harrigan Applied Computing University of Dundee ===================== From russell-belfast-pm at futureless.org Wed Sep 4 04:12:00 2002 From: russell-belfast-pm at futureless.org (Russell Matbouli) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Books for a relative Perl newbie In-Reply-To: <1031104019.32663.8.camel@faraday> References: <1031104019.32663.8.camel@faraday> Message-ID: <20020904091200.GD31715@futureless.org> On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 02:46:53AM +0100, Mark Harrigan wrote: > I'm considering learning Perl and would like some recommendations on > what books would be good to start with. The Camel Book, "Programming Perl", Wall et al, O'Reilly and Associates. It'll skin you ?30 odd though. You can find all that information in the online perldocs [0] and tutorials though, or at least enough to get you up and running. > I'm aiming to learn it for use in web programming ie mod_perl so any > books that concentrated on that would be good. Or should I just learn it > in a general way with something like Programming Perl and apply that to > my web design ideas? I'd start with CGI programming before diving into mod_perl. Once you're used to it, then read The Guide [1] and see what the caveats are for mod_perl programming compared to CGI, and learn the interfaces. > If it's of any use I've learnt a bit of Perl already but only really > basic stuff.(Chapter one of Learning Perl sort of thing and that was a > while ago) I'm competant in C and C++ programming and can bash out some > VB if forced to at uni.:) You can probably write your C programs, the slap a perl shebang line on them and they'll generally Do What You Mean... [0] 'perldoc perl' will give you a list of relevant pages [1] http://perl.apache.org/ used to link directly to it, but I think it moved. I think it is at http://perl.apache.org/docs/1.0/guide/index.html now. -- Russell Matbouli | If I could wake up in a different place, russell@futureless.org | at a different time, PGP KeyID: 0x3CA84CF4 | could I wake up as a different person? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/belfast-pm/attachments/20020904/44b5796b/attachment.bin From andrew at rivendale.net Wed Sep 4 04:43:21 2002 From: andrew at rivendale.net (Andrew Wilson) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Books for a relative Perl newbie In-Reply-To: <20020904091200.GD31715@futureless.org> References: <1031104019.32663.8.camel@faraday> <20020904091200.GD31715@futureless.org> Message-ID: <20020904094321.GB1098@rivendale.net> On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 10:12:00AM +0100, Russell Matbouli wrote: > On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 02:46:53AM +0100, Mark Harrigan wrote: > > I'm considering learning Perl and would like some recommendations on > > what books would be good to start with. > > The Camel Book, "Programming Perl", Wall et al, O'Reilly and Associates. > It'll skin you ?30 odd though. You can find all that information in the > online perldocs [0] and tutorials though, or at least enough to get you > up and running. Indeed, the camel is *the* acknowledged reference on perl, you won't go far wrong with it. > > I'm aiming to learn it for use in web programming ie mod_perl so any > > books that concentrated on that would be good. Or should I just learn it > > in a general way with something like Programming Perl and apply that to > > my web design ideas? I would just learn perl if I was you > I'd start with CGI programming before diving into mod_perl. Once you're > used to it, then read The Guide [1] and see what the caveats are for > mod_perl programming compared to CGI, and learn the interfaces. Why? Asking as someone who did modperl programming before any other CGI stuff. > > If it's of any use I've learnt a bit of Perl already but only really > > basic stuff.(Chapter one of Learning Perl sort of thing and that was a > > while ago) I'm competant in C and C++ programming and can bash out some > > VB if forced to at uni.:) Learning perl is a great little introduction to the language, It's the first book I read/worked through. > You can probably write your C programs, the slap a perl shebang line on > them and they'll generally Do What You Mean... While this may be true, it generally a crap idea. perl is not c, idioms that are a great way to do things in c are a crap way to do it in perl. Try to learn idiomatic perl. Having said that, you don't need to learn it all at once. One piece of advice. Always, always always turn on warnings and use strict. There are various perl beginner lists, which I'm told are a good place to learn from better coders, but I've never read them and can't really recommend them from personal experience. andrew -- Capricorn: (Dec. 22 - Jan. 19) Although the surgeons would like to cheer you up any way they can, the law won't let you keep your legs in glass jars. From russell at futureless.org Wed Sep 4 04:54:03 2002 From: russell at futureless.org (Russell Matbouli) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Books for a relative Perl newbie In-Reply-To: <20020904094321.GB1098@rivendale.net> References: <1031104019.32663.8.camel@faraday> <20020904091200.GD31715@futureless.org> <20020904094321.GB1098@rivendale.net> Message-ID: <20020904095402.GB32223@futureless.org> On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 10:43:21AM +0100, Andrew Wilson wrote: > Indeed, the camel is *the* acknowledged reference on perl, you won't go > far wrong with it. *nod* > I would just learn perl if I was you I agree. > Why? Asking as someone who did modperl programming before any other CGI > stuff. CGI doesn't require you to be as strict as mod_perl does, which makes it easier for the novice IMHO. Not that I'm saying that the best way to get into Perl is through writing bad code, it's just easier that way. > Learning perl is a great little introduction to the language, It's the > first book I read/worked through. I found it too basic and didn't go into enough detail, but that may be because I borrowed both the llama and the camel from the library at the same time. The llama is a better book if you don't know anything about programming or want a good base to start from. > While this may be true, it generally a crap idea. perl is not c, idioms > that are a great way to do things in c are a crap way to do it in perl. > Try to learn idiomatic perl. Having said that, you don't need to learn > it all at once. Again, I wasn't saying it was a good way, just pointing out that it was possible, and that it would flatten the learning curve for someone who already knows C. Idiomatic Perl will always be better, but you have to get into the way of it first. You'll look at your C-like Perl and say, "urgh, that's ugly", then realise that there's a more perlish way to do it. > One piece of advice. Always, always always turn on warnings and use strict. Indeed. On a recent (post 5.6.0) Perl, you can do 'use warnings;' to do this, otherwise put a -w on the shebang line. Put 'use strict;' at the top to enable the strictures. How will this be handled in Perl 6? I think they should be on unless you turn them off (as we virtually *demand* those two pragmas in every piece of code under perl 5...). > There are various perl beginner lists, which I'm told are a good place to > learn from better coders, but I've never read them and can't really > recommend them from personal experience. I don't think you could go far wrong posting to your local PM group, but there is a beginners@perl.org list (although it seems high volume, I subbed for a month or so when it was set up). -- Russell Matbouli | I saw George Bush at a benefit concert actually russell@futureless.org | waving at Stevie Wonder. Someone had to tell him: PGP KeyID: 0x3CA84CF4 | "He can't see you". -- Anne Robinson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/belfast-pm/attachments/20020904/8e21f592/attachment.bin From andrew at rivendale.net Wed Sep 4 05:03:09 2002 From: andrew at rivendale.net (Andrew Wilson) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Books for a relative Perl newbie In-Reply-To: <20020904095402.GB32223@futureless.org> References: <1031104019.32663.8.camel@faraday> <20020904091200.GD31715@futureless.org> <20020904094321.GB1098@rivendale.net> <20020904095402.GB32223@futureless.org> Message-ID: <20020904100309.GC1098@rivendale.net> On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 10:54:03AM +0100, Russell Matbouli wrote: > On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 10:43:21AM +0100, Andrew Wilson wrote: > > Indeed, the camel is *the* acknowledged reference on perl, you won't go > > far wrong with it. Here's one I forgot to recommend earlier. Regular expressions are a reasonably important part of perl, I learned them from 'sed & awk' 2nd edition, which is published by O'Reilly. sed and awk are both insanely hard to use compared to perl, but the coverage of regular expressions in this book was really useful to me. Just be careful it doesn't put you off perl :-) andrew -- Libra: (Sept. 23 - Oct. 23) It's all over but the shouting, but don't worry: It's going to be great shouting. From wesley at yelsew.com Wed Sep 4 05:06:25 2002 From: wesley at yelsew.com (Wesley Darlington) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Yesterday evening... Message-ID: <20020904100625.GA21776@paat.pair.com> Hi Folks, Yesterday evening was *great*. Many, many, many thanks to Damian for coming to speak to us. Thanks also to Kasei for making it possible. Damian++, Perl6++, Kasei++. I'm really looking forward to tomorrow's talk... Thanks, Wesley. PS. How much did (and will) the room in Jury's cost? PPS. Note to self: Don't stay out late drinking on a "school night". From marty+belfast-pm at kasei.com Wed Sep 4 05:15:52 2002 From: marty+belfast-pm at kasei.com (Marty Pauley) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Books for a relative Perl newbie In-Reply-To: <20020904091200.GD31715@futureless.org> References: <1031104019.32663.8.camel@faraday> <20020904091200.GD31715@futureless.org> Message-ID: <20020904101552.GN26790@soto.kasei.com> On Wed Sep 4 10:12:00 2002, Russell Matbouli wrote: > On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 02:46:53AM +0100, Mark Harrigan wrote: > > I'm considering learning Perl and would like some recommendations on > > what books would be good to start with. > > The Camel Book, "Programming Perl", Wall et al, O'Reilly and Associates. "Learning Perl" is popular when learning Perl. It might be the title... "Essential Perl Programming" (not an O'Reilly book) seemed ok. > It'll skin you ?30 odd though. You can find all that information in the > online perldocs [0] and tutorials though, or at least enough to get you > up and running. > > > I'm aiming to learn it for use in web programming ie mod_perl so any > > books that concentrated on that would be good. Or should I just learn it > > in a general way with something like Programming Perl and apply that to > > my web design ideas? > > I'd start with CGI programming before diving into mod_perl. Once you're > used to it, then read The Guide [1] and see what the caveats are for > mod_perl programming compared to CGI, and learn the interfaces. I think I'd skip CGI programming, unless you need it for something else. I'd still start by writing scripts (using Apache::Request and Apache::Registry) rather than diving straight into handlers. > > If it's of any use I've learnt a bit of Perl already but only really > > basic stuff.(Chapter one of Learning Perl sort of thing and that was a > > while ago) I'm competant in C and C++ programming and can bash out some > > VB if forced to at uni.:) Chapter 2 of "Learning Perl" might be a good place to continue. > You can probably write your C programs, the slap a perl shebang line on > them and they'll generally Do What You Mean... :-) Unfortunately, too many potentially good Perl programmers have been ruined by following that advice. Perl written like C is usually ugly and slow. -- Marty -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 212 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/belfast-pm/attachments/20020904/689c4138/attachment.bin From russell-belfast-pm at futureless.org Wed Sep 4 05:19:01 2002 From: russell-belfast-pm at futureless.org (Russell Matbouli) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Books for a relative Perl newbie In-Reply-To: <20020904101552.GN26790@soto.kasei.com> References: <1031104019.32663.8.camel@faraday> <20020904091200.GD31715@futureless.org> <20020904101552.GN26790@soto.kasei.com> Message-ID: <20020904101901.GA32458@futureless.org> On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 11:15:52AM +0100, Marty Pauley wrote: > I think I'd skip CGI programming, unless you need it for something else. > I'd still start by writing scripts (using Apache::Request and > Apache::Registry) rather than diving straight into handlers. Okay, I think this is what I *actually* meant. > Unfortunately, too many potentially good Perl programmers have been > ruined by following that advice. Perl written like C is usually ugly > and slow. I retract all statements regarding slapping perl shebang lines on C programs, in that case :) It is a quick and dirty way to get into it, though. I think that's what my problem was... I'm gradually getting out of that bad habit (hopefully totally out of it now). -- Russell Matbouli | russell@futureless.org | Hospital closures kill more than carbombs ever will PGP KeyID: 0x3CA84CF4 | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/belfast-pm/attachments/20020904/aee27f58/attachment.bin From tony at kasei.com Wed Sep 4 05:57:01 2002 From: tony at kasei.com (Tony Bowden) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Books for a relative Perl newbie In-Reply-To: <20020904095402.GB32223@futureless.org> References: <1031104019.32663.8.camel@faraday> <20020904091200.GD31715@futureless.org> <20020904094321.GB1098@rivendale.net> <20020904095402.GB32223@futureless.org> Message-ID: <20020904105701.GA15378@soto.kasei.com> On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 10:54:03AM +0100, Russell Matbouli wrote: > CGI doesn't require you to be as strict as mod_perl does, which makes it > easier for the novice IMHO. Not that I'm saying that the best way to > get into Perl is through writing bad code, it's just easier that way. Learning is always much easier than unlearning ... Tony From justinrainer at hotmail.com Wed Sep 4 06:00:38 2002 From: justinrainer at hotmail.com (Justin Rainer) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Trying to use perl to populate Lotus 123 Message-ID: Hi Peeps, Need some help and direction using perl to build lotus 123 spreadsheets. I have in the past used Excel and used SpreadSheet.pm and Win32:OLE. Not really having any luck with Lotus 123 and Win32:OLE, any gurus out there want to help me out. All help appreciated, Justin. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From ab.gallagher at qub.ac.uk Wed Sep 4 08:28:10 2002 From: ab.gallagher at qub.ac.uk (Andrew Gallagher) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Trying to use perl to populate Lotus 123 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020904132810.GK2356@wolverine.am.qub.ac.uk> On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 11:00:38AM +0000, Justin Rainer wrote: Are you the Justin Rainer I think you are? There can't be many of you around! -- | Andrew Gallagher | web.andrewg.com | | Computer Support Asst., Dept. of Applied Maths and Theoretical | | Physics, Queen's University of Belfast, BT7 1NN, N. Ireland | From swm at swmcc.com Wed Sep 4 10:21:04 2002 From: swm at swmcc.com (Stephen McCullough) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Books For Review In-Reply-To: <3D73352A.8FFDDF21@guideguide.com>; from jasper@guideguide.com on Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 10:53:46AM +0100 References: <20020830153819.GA30065@soto.kasei.com> <20020901144830.A31336@gandalf.swmcc.com> <3D73352A.8FFDDF21@guideguide.com> Message-ID: <20020904162104.A2695@gandalf.swmcc.com> > Stephen McCullough wrote: > > > > > Teach Yourself Perl in 21 Days > > > > If no-one else wants this I will review it. > > > > I can't believe no one made a joke at Stephen's expense. It has started, on another list. It is a sort of a big brother piss take I think. -- Stephen McCullough http://www.swmcc.com Duggie: "I am evil Duggie, I am evil Duggie, I am evil Duggie" From russell-belfast-pm at futureless.org Wed Sep 4 10:47:21 2002 From: russell-belfast-pm at futureless.org (Russell Matbouli) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Books For Review In-Reply-To: <20020904162104.A2695@gandalf.swmcc.com> References: <20020830153819.GA30065@soto.kasei.com> <20020901144830.A31336@gandalf.swmcc.com> <3D73352A.8FFDDF21@guideguide.com> <20020904162104.A2695@gandalf.swmcc.com> Message-ID: <20020904154721.GA1694@futureless.org> On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 04:21:04PM +0100, Stephen McCullough wrote: > It has started, on another list. It is a sort of a big brother piss take I > think. Day 1, and Stephen has discovered that the other Perl programmers are having fun at his expense. The programmers are making use of side-effects and implicit variables to confuse the novice programmer. :) -- Russell Matbouli | SOY! SOY! SOY! Soy makes you strong! russell@futureless.org | Strength crushes enemies! SOY! PGP KeyID: 0x3CA84CF4 | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/belfast-pm/attachments/20020904/dd6ea521/attachment.bin From scott at kungfuftr.com Wed Sep 4 18:33:18 2002 From: scott at kungfuftr.com (Scott McWhirter) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: [neil@geekcruises.com: Perl Whirl '03 set for Hawaii] Message-ID: <20020904233318.GA24480@aslan.unite.net> ----- Forwarded message from Neil Bauman ----- Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 19:20:09 -0400 (EDT) From: neil@geekcruises.com (Neil Bauman) To: scott@kungfuftr.com Subject: Perl Whirl '03 set for Hawaii Hi Scott, I'm just back from Hawaii! I did the seven-day cruise we're scheduled to take around the Hawaiian islands this June 1-7. Here's my report: The ship is fantastic. Ten restaurants, 13 bars, two entertainment halls, a large movie theater, a kid's club, a teen's club, sauna, steam, four *outdoor* Jacuzzis (yeah, a couple inside as well), full basketball court ... I could go on and on. The food was excellent. My favorite eatery was Ginza, an elegant "Asian fusion" restaurant. In addition to a marvelous sit-down menu, they have a sushi bar (conveyor belt and all!) and in the back they offer Teppanyaki (i.e., Benihana-style eating) in a small room where 12 people sit around a cooking station, watching, and eating, as the chef prepares and dishes out your meal. The empty seat in the corner was mine: http://www.geekcruises.com/gifs/mm2/Ginza.jpg (I, or my traveling companion, Chris Campbell, alum of MacMania I and Geek Cruises graphic artist, took all the photos in this email.) The five ports of call were impressive -- and EXOTIC. We started off in Honolulu. Make sure you come in a day or more before the cruise to enjoy the Waikiki beaches, the Pearl Harbor museum (I particularly like visiting the USS Arizona, where Hirohito surrendered to Gen. Macarthur), and many other beautiful sites around the island. On the subject of getting in early, rather than our usual, "the day before, pre-cruise cocktail party," we've decided to organize a "luau banquet" (with entertainment) which will be held on the *beachfront* of the Sheraton Moana Surfrider -- right on the green grass area as can be seen in the bottom left corner of this photo I took from the 34th floor of the Hyatt hotel: http://www.geekcruises.com/gifs/mm2/Sheraton.jpg. From Honolulu we went to Fanning Island, a beautiful tropical paradise, just 100 miles north of the Equator. The big thrill here is snorkeling. There's also an incredible beachfront, much of which is under shade: http://www.geekcruises.com/gifs/mm2/FanningIsle.jpg Next was Maui. We rented our first car here (shuttle pick ups are right at the pier) and drove east towards Hana. This drive was the most unbelievable drive I've ever experienced -- and believe me, there are A LOT of incredible drives up and down the California coast (I've done dozens of these coast drives, so I know). This weaving drive, along the coast line, is through the most exquisite rain forest/jungle you've ever imagined. Picture 30 miles of this: http://www.geekcruises.com/gifs/mm2/Maui_1.jpg http://www.geekcruises.com/gifs/mm2/Maui_2.jpg After Maui we visited Kauai ... another incredible island. Again, we rented a car. By the way, renting a car *is the only way* to go, in my opinion. For under $50 you've got a day's worth of activities under your control and discretion. (Hertz, Avis, National, Alamo, Budget, and Dollar all had shuttle buses in Maui and Kauai ... we didn't rent a car in Hilo but it's "the big Island" so I'm certain it's not a problem here, too.) This was *just the first two hours* : http://www.geekcruises.com/gifs/mm2/Kauai_1.jpg http://www.geekcruises.com/gifs/mm2/Kauai_2.jpg ************************************* THE Perl Whirl '03 PROGRAM IS NOW SET ************************************* -------------- SPECIAL EVENTS -------------- 1) Larry Wall -- Q&A and other stuff 2) Life, The Universe, and Everything Watch in horrified fascination as three utterly unrelated trains of thought... quantum finite state automata, the philosophical conundrum of Maxwell's demon, and programming in Klingon ... collide with Perl at high speed in Damian Conway's brain. 3) LUNCHEON Using Perl with Oracle Speaker: Tim Bunce What you will learn: Overview of the open source tools available to make your life with Oracle easier, with a particular focus on the DBI DBD::Oracle driver module and the new Oracle::OCI module. The DBD::Oracle module offers more than the basic DBI interface. Topics will include: specifying bind types, binding output values (including using the RETURNING clause), connecting in DBA or OPER mode, and tuning the row cache. The new Oracle::OCI module gives direct access to the Oracle Call Interface API from perl and the DBI (including handling Oracle object types, REF cursors, LOB locators, streaming data, direct-loading, and more.) Want to do more than DBD::Oracle makes possible, or tired of writing and debugging your OCI applications in C? Try Oracle::OCI! ------ PERL 5 ------ Packages, Objects, References, and Modules (PROM) (1.5 days) Speaker: Randal Schwartz PROM is an intermediate level course that is suitable for students that have completed Learning Perl or the equivalent. Students should have a solid programming background. Some experience in using pointers (in C or some other language) and object-oriented programming is recommended, as is practical experience in Perl. The course is geared toward intermediate Perl programmers who wish to use advanced data structures or objects, or who want to build and distribute Perl modules for others to use. PROM covers: * Control Structures: map, grep, and eval * Advanced Regular Expressions (including pos() and \G) * Packages (including require and my()) * References (scalar, array, hash, and soft references, anonymous data) * References and Data Structures (arrays of arrays, etc.) * References and Sorting (the "Schwartzian" transform) * References and Subroutines (including typeglobs, coderefs, and closures) * Modules (BEGIN/END blocks, use, h2xs, and POD) * Object-Oriented Perl (classes, methods, constructors, inheritance) * Object-Oriented Modules * Tied Variables Perl Program Repair Shop and Red Flags (full day) Speaker: Mark-Jason Dominus Most programmers are working too hard, writing twenty lines of code where they need only ten. "Program Repair Shop" will show you how to reduce the typical program by 30-50% while making it easier to read and easier to re-use. The class focuses on 'low-hanging fruit': Problems that are easy to find and easy to fix. Most often, the presence of such problems is signaled by 'red flags', which are highly visible signs that there is an easy opportunity to improve the code. I'll show many red flags in real programs I've gathered and show quick ways to make these programs smaller, faster, and simpler to understand. Once you've seen the flags, it will be easy for you to do the same things to the programs you maintain. Prerequisites: Attendees should have basic familiarity with the Perl language and at least six months' experience writing programs in Perl. Target audience: Programmers writing Perl programs that will be maintained or reused. General topics covered Part I: * Families of variables * Making relationships explicit * Refactoring * Programming by convention * The Flesh Blanket * Conciseness * Why you should avoid the '.' operator * Elimination of global variables * Superstition * The 'use strict' zombies * Repressed subconscious urges * The cardinal rule of computer programming * The psychology of repeated code * Techniques for eliminating repeated code * What can go wrong with 'if' and 'else' * The Condition that Ate Michigan * Resisting fanaticism * Trying it both ways Part II: * Structural vs. functional code * Elimination of structure * Boolean values * Programs that take two steps forward and one step back * Programs that are 10% backslashes * print print print print print * C-style 'for' loops * Loop counter variables * Array length variables * Unnecessary shell calls * How (and why) to let 'undef' be the special value * Confusion of internal and external representations of data * Tool use * Elimination of repeated code with higher-order functions * Learning to use a hammer * The 'swswsw' problem * Avoiding special cases * Using uniform data representations Introduction to the Perl DBI (1/4 day) Speaker: Tim Bunce Who Should Attend: Perl programmers who need a simple way to access data stored in databases of all kinds and who are not yet familiar with the DBI (the standard database interface module for Perl). What you will learn: * The DBI architecture and drivers * Specifying and connecting to a data source * Executing SQL statements * Why it's good to prepare() * The many ways of fetching data to suit your needs * Handling LONG/BLOB data * Using placeholders * Making your applications more robust using automatic error handling * Using trace to see what's happening * Writing portable applications Advanced DBI (half day) Speaker: Tim Bunce Who Should Attend: Intermediate to advanced Perl programmers with understanding of the DBI and a desire to know more. Learn how the DBI works and how to get the best out of it, including how to maximize speed, safety, reliability and portability. Topics include: * Speed, speed, speed: what helps, what doesn't (database design, application partitioning, hinting query execution plans, network latency, stored procedures, caching etc) * Handling handles (connect_cached() and prepare_cached()) * Binding values to placeholders * Error checking and recovery (importance of checking and virtues of eval) * Transactions (integrating with eval) * Wheels within wheels (the architecture and how to see inside it using trace ) * DBI for the Web (statelessness, locking, tainting and security) * Handling LONG/BLOB data * Database and platform portability * The power of proxy and the magic of multiplex * And finally ... what's new and what's planned Programming with Iterators and Generators (half day) Speaker: Mark-Jason Dominus Some functions take too long to run because they produces too much useful information. Search functions might locate ten thousand matches, or database queries might return ten million records. Perl filehandles are a simple and familiar model for dealing with such problems: ! Instead of reading every file in one giant gulp, they deliver data only when it is needed, bit by bit. The class explores the construction of objects that have similar behavior, delivering data on demand, and the applications of these techniques in standard Perl modules such as File::Find and DBI. Students should have basic familiarity with Perl. Using Regular Expressions (half day) Speaker: Jeff Pinyan Who Should Attend: Beginners and intermediate regex users. What You Will Learn: How to read and write regexes, and write them EFFICIENTLY; how to write them to match what you want, and understand what they will and won't match; why a regex doesn't match why you might EXPECT it to match. We'll start with a simple view of the elements of a regex, and build up to real, useful, working regexes. Not ALL features of Perl's regex engine will be gone over, but the most common and useful ones. Potentially confusing concepts such as backtracking and greed will be explained. Topics: * the elements of a regex * capturing and regex variables * greed and backtracking * pattern modifiers (global, case-insensitive, etc.) * look-ahead and look-behind * using regexes in substitution Mining the Web with LWP (half day) Speaker: Nathan Torkington Who Should Attend: Anybody who wants to automatically extract information from web pages with Perl. If you've ever thought "I only care about a tiny part of this web site, why do I have to wade through the rest to get to the bit I do want?" then this class is for you. What You'll Learn: * Fetching web pages * shelling out to commands such as lynx and wget * straightforward fetches with LWP::Simple * mirroring a single page with LWP::Simple * POSTs, cookies, and authentication with user agents * an overview of spidering multiple pages * Analyzing web pages * regular expression techniques for extracting information from HTML * treating an HTML page as a series of tokens with HTML::TokeParser * treating an HTML page as a tree of nested tags with HTML::TreeBuilder * When not to automate * legal, technical, and social reasons against automated web access OS X and Perl (half day) Speaker: Nathan Torkington Who should attend: anyone with an OS X machine who is interested in going beneath the standard tools to have fun with Perl and Unix tools. You'll learn everything from installing Perl modules to messing around in system configuration files. What you'll learn: * installing CPAN modules (and which modules to install) * upgrading Perl: fink vs do-it-yourself * enabling and using mod_perl * what you need to run Tk programs * mixing AppleScript and Perl to control other applications from a Perl script * reading and writing application and system configuration files (plists, /etc, and the defaults command) * system-specific modules such as MacOSX::File * backing up your system with psync * releasing your Perl code as an OS X package Filtering and Analyzing Email with Perl (half day) Speaker: Casey West Who Should Attend: Programmers, administrators, and users alike. Intermediate Perl programming abilities highly encouraged. You should have at least sent and recieved a few emails in your day. You should come with a desire to sort email, kill spam, and get statistics on who is sending you mail, at the very least. What You'll Learn: "Filtering and Analyzing Email with Perl" is an introductory tutorial on harnessing the power of email with the power of Perl. Concrete, usable applications will be built before your very eyes. You will leave this seminar with a solid understanding of filtering incoming email, autoresponders, statistical analysis, using email as an application interface, killing spam, converting attachments, tidying up email, and many other useful examples. ------ PERL 6 ------ Perl 6 Basics (half day) Speaker: Allison Randal Learn the basics of Perl 6 in a practical and easy-to-follow format. You can get up-to-speed quickly, or review the concepts that went by too fast the first time, like: the operator and sigil changes; properties; data types; the extended importance of closures; comparisons and smart matching; error variables; topics; parameter list syntax; switches and loops; here docs; string interpolation; and more. Advanced Perl 6 (half day) Speaker: Damian Conway Damian will describe some of the more powerful new features of Perl 6 including multidimensional data structures; iterators; multidimensional slices, maps, and greps; multi-stream loops; pattern matching (rules and grammars); exceptions; argument binding; aliasing; hyperoperators; and (just maybe!) superpositions. Object Oriented Perl 6 (half day) Speaker: Damian Conway Perl 6 comes with a new industrial-strength OO mechanism that provides declarative classes, proper encapsulation, design-by-contract checking, multiple dispatch, cleaner operator overloading, and many other tasty treats. Damian will show you what's new in Perl's OO, and how you can best take advantage of it. Programming in Perl 6 (half day) Speaker: Damian Conway Using nothing but vi and two fingers, Damian will create a series Perl 6 programs before your very eyes, illustrating along the way the new features of the language, and the new techniques and idioms that those features make possible. **************** STAR TREK BONUS! **************** On our sailing there will also be a CruiseTrek conference, with about a half dozen Star Trek personalities including: the celebrities George Takei ("Sulu"), Ethan Phillips ("Neelix"), and Wil Wheaton ("Wesley Crusher"); Ronald B. Moore, Visual Effects Supervisor for "Enterprise"; Lolita Fatjo, Script Coordinator; Star Trek writer Eric Stillwell; and others, still to be announced. Typical CruiseTrek events include Q&A sessions with actors, photo session with actors, actors entertainment hour, custom CruiseTrek games, and much much more. For $275, attendees, spouses, and guests may attend any and all of the CruiseTrek events! For additional details, contact Charlie Datin, 310-456-7544 cruisetrek@aol.com Thanks again for your interest in Geek Cruises and I look forward to seeing you in Hawaii! Kind regards, Neil Bauman Cap'n & CEO Geek Cruises, Inc. 650-327-3692 *********************************************************** Get the Geek Cruises discount on Osborne McGraw-Hill books: http://www.mhorder/geekcruise *********************************************************** To remove yourself from our list Reply and put "unsubscribe" on the subject line -- with or without the quotes. (BUT remember, we'll be drawing from our database the end of this month, to GIVE AWAY ANOTHER FREE CRUISE! By unsubscribing you'll miss this opportunity.) ----- End forwarded message ----- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/belfast-pm/attachments/20020905/261a6964/attachment.bin From mharrigan at computing.dundee.ac.uk Wed Sep 4 23:19:19 2002 From: mharrigan at computing.dundee.ac.uk (Mark Harrigan) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Books for a relative Perl newbie In-Reply-To: <3D759BE0.5030807@acm.org> References: <1031104019.32663.8.camel@faraday> <3D759BE0.5030807@acm.org> Message-ID: <1031199565.1357.12.camel@faraday> On Wed, 2002-09-04 at 06:36, Sean O'Riordain wrote: > Hi Mark, > I'd recommend working through "Learning Perl"... before jumping in > deeper... although it looks light... in my opinion, its a very good > introduction and it goes through to using CGI... > Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. I've bought Learning Perl, which is a newer edition than the one I looked at last time, and was reading through it today in my free time. It's very nice to read and seems to cover all the basics that I'll need. I reckon I'll get Programming Perl when I'm done with this. I've also nabbed a copy of Sed and Awk from gnutella. I can't read big books on-line but it might be nice to have further reference material on regular expressions as Andrew suggested. Hopefully I should soon be annoying you all with stupid questions. ;) Oh and thanks again. -- ===================== Mark Harrigan Applied Computing University of Dundee ===================== From max9249 at PGPLAN.iimahd.ernet.in Wed Sep 4 14:48:12 2002 From: max9249 at PGPLAN.iimahd.ernet.in (Customer Support Group) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: $ave money on your long distance conference calls Message-ID: <00003d67459b$00003649$00003d83@OBJECTWAY.IT> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/belfast-pm/attachments/20020904/c702cc01/attachment.htm From justinrainer at hotmail.com Tue Sep 10 02:48:36 2002 From: justinrainer at hotmail.com (Justin Rainer) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Trying to locate module WinPerl++ (AKA GuiDo) Message-ID: Hi Folks, Can anyone help me to locate WinPerl++ (AKA GuiDo) module for automating GUI's.? All help appreciated. Regards, Justin. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From andrew at rivendale.net Tue Sep 10 03:41:53 2002 From: andrew at rivendale.net (Andrew Wilson) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Trying to use perl to populate Lotus 123 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020910084153.GB6041@rivendale.net> Hi Justin On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 11:00:38AM +0000, Justin Rainer wrote: > Need some help and direction using perl to build lotus 123 > spreadsheets. I have in the past used Excel and used SpreadSheet.pm > and Win32:OLE. > > Not really having any luck with Lotus 123 and Win32:OLE, any gurus out > there want to help me out. > > All help appreciated, I see nobody responded to this, well not publicly anyway. I've never had to work with lotus spreadsheets, but can't they import CSV files? and if they can is there any reason you can't just export your data as CSV and then open that in Lotus? andrew -- Virgo: (Aug. 23 - Sept. 22) After his untimely death, all those mean things you said about Dave will come back to haunt you. As will Dave himself. From newsletters at the-financial-news.com Tue Sep 10 05:46:22 2002 From: newsletters at the-financial-news.com (The Financial News) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Development countries. News in brief Message-ID: The Financial News, September 2002 Production Mini-plants in mobile containers. Co-investment Program "...Science Network will supply to countries and developing regions the technology and the necessary support for the production in series of Mini-plants in mobile containers (40-foot). The Mini-plant system is designed in such a way that all the production machinery is fixed on the platform of the container, with all wiring, piping, and installation parts; that is to say, they are fully equipped... and the mini-plant is ready for production." More than 700 portable production systems: Bakeries, Steel Nails, Welding Electrodes, Tire Retreading, Reinforcement Bar Bending for Construction Framework, Sheeting for Roofing, Ceilings and Fa?ades, Plated Drums, Aluminum Buckets, Injected Polypropylene Housewares, Pressed Melamine Items (Glasses, Cups, Plates, Mugs, etc.), Mufflers, Construction Electrically Welded Mesh, Plastic Bags and Packaging, Mobile units of medical assistance, Sanitary Material, Hypodermic Syringes, Hemostatic Clamps, etc. Science Network has started a process of Co-investment for the installation of small Assembly plants to manufacture in series the Mini-plants of portable production on the site, region or country where they may be required. One of the most relevant features is the fact that these plants will be connected to the World Trade System (WTS) with access to more than 50 million raw materials, products and services and automatic transactions for world trade. Due to financial reasons, involving cost and social impact, the right thing to do is to set up assembly plants in the same countries and regions, using local resources (labor, some equipment, etc.) Science Network participates with 50% in the investment of each Assembly plant. For more information: Mini-plants in mobile containers By Steven P. Leibacher, The Financial News, Editor Mini-plantas de produccion en contenedores moviles. Programa de Co-inversion "...Science Network suministrara a paises y regiones en vias de desarrollo la tecnologia y el apoyo necesario para la fabricacion en serie de Mini-plantas de produccion en contenedores moviles (40-foot). El sistema de mini-plantas esta dise?ado de forma que todas las maquinas de produccion van instaladas fijas sobre la propia plataforma del contenedor, con el cableado, tuberias e instalaciones; es decir, completamente equipadas... y a partir de ese momento est?n listas para producir." Mas de 700 sistemas de produccion portatil: Panaderias, Producci?n de clavos de acero, Electrodos para soldadura, Recauchutado de neumaticos, Curvado de hierro para armaduras de construccion, Lamina perfilada para cubiertas, techos y cerramientos de fachada, Bidones de chapa, Cubos de aluminio, Menaje de polipropileno inyectado, Piezas de melamina prensada (vasos, platos, tazas, cafeteras, etc.) Silenciadores para vehiculos, Malla electrosoldada para la construccion, Bolsas y envases de plastico, Unidades moviles de asistencia medica, Material sanitario (jeringas hipodermicas, Pinzas hemostaticas, etc.) Science Network ha puesto en marcha un proceso de Co-inversion para la instalacion de peque?as Plantas ensambladoras para fabricar en serie las Mini-plantas de produccion portatil, en el lugar, region o pais que lo necesite. Una de las caracter?sticas relevantes es el hecho de que dichas plantas quedaran conectadas al Sistema del Comercio Mundial (WTS) con acceso a mas de 50 millones de mercancias, materia primas, productos, servicios y las operaciones automaticas de comercio internacional. Resulta obvio que por razones economicas, de costes y de impacto social, lo apropiado es instalar plantas ensambladoras en los mismos paises y regiones asi como utilizar los recursos locales (mano de obra, ciertos equipamientos, etc.) Science Network participa al 50% en la inversion de cada Planta ensambladora. Para recibir mas informacion: Mini-plantas de produccion en contenedores moviles Steven P. Leibacher, The Financial News, Editor ------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you received this in error or would like to be removed from our list, please return us indicating: remove or un-subscribe in 'subject' field, Thanks. Editor ? 2002 The Financial News. All rights reserved. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/belfast-pm/attachments/20020910/e0f4df37/attachment.htm From marty+belfast-pm at kasei.com Tue Sep 10 14:07:20 2002 From: marty+belfast-pm at kasei.com (Marty Pauley) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Books for a relative Perl newbie In-Reply-To: <20020904095402.GB32223@futureless.org> References: <1031104019.32663.8.camel@faraday> <20020904091200.GD31715@futureless.org> <20020904094321.GB1098@rivendale.net> <20020904095402.GB32223@futureless.org> Message-ID: <20020910190720.GG8868@soto.kasei.com> On Wed Sep 4 10:54:03 2002, Russell Matbouli wrote: > On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 10:43:21AM +0100, Andrew Wilson wrote: > > > While this may be true, it generally a crap idea. perl is not c, idioms > > that are a great way to do things in c are a crap way to do it in perl. > > Try to learn idiomatic perl. Having said that, you don't need to learn > > it all at once. > > Again, I wasn't saying it was a good way, just pointing out that it was > possible, and that it would flatten the learning curve for someone who > already knows C. Idiomatic Perl will always be better, but you have to > get into the way of it first. You'll look at your C-like Perl and say, > "urgh, that's ugly", then realise that there's a more perlish way to do > it. Most people won't look at their C-like Perl and think it's ugly. They'll say "great, this works". This language learning problem is not tied to Perl, and is not new: the same problem has existed with spoken languages for millennia. 20 years ago Jerry Weinberg (in his book that Tony has reviewed: http://belfast.pm.org/reviews/professional_programmer.html) suggested that potential programmers should initially be taught 2 languages at the same time: the second language (spoken or code) is always the most difficult; if you have 2 first languages then the next one will by your third, and so you skip the most difficult part. If you already know one language, it's too late to follow Jerry's advice. My advice then would be to learn a language that is very different from the ones you know. C is (almost) a subset of C++, but Java, VB, Delphi, Pascal, Modula2, Ada, and Eiffel are also all very similar. If you know these languages, I think you should try to learn something like Scheme or Haskell. This might be a good discussion for the lingua list... -- Marty -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 212 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/belfast-pm/attachments/20020910/4ca61d31/attachment.bin From mailing at espace-video.fr Sat Sep 14 20:16:06 2002 From: mailing at espace-video.fr (mailing@espace-video.fr) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: ESPACE VIDEO FRANCE - Sites Officiels Message-ID: <200209150116.g8F1G6u03005@localhost.localdomain> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/belfast-pm/attachments/20020915/992fbf7b/attachment.htm From scott at kungfuftr.com Fri Sep 20 10:22:35 2002 From: scott at kungfuftr.com (Scott McWhirter) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Learning Perl Message-ID: <20020920152235.GA15252@aslan.unite.net> ullo, i got dave wilson to finally agree to learn perl after telling him of the wonders of mod_perl and Class::DBI. So i'm not letting him back out of it. Does anyone have a copy of learning perl (o'rielly) that they could loan him? ta! -- -Scott McWhirter- | -kungfuftr- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/belfast-pm/attachments/20020920/54b52557/attachment.bin From steve at deeden.co.uk Tue Sep 24 04:17:54 2002 From: steve at deeden.co.uk (Steve Rushe) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: The PM Group Cull Message-ID: <20020924091754.GA5614@deeden.co.uk> In case you haven't seen it Dave Cross has been culling the Perl Monger group listings (http://use.perl.org/articles/02/09/23/2041201.shtml?tid=1) Belfast.pm was marked as removed, so I've told him we're still alive. We should appear in the listing at the PM site (http://www.pm.org/groups/) tomorrow after the list is rebuilt. Steve -- Steve Rushe - www.deeden.co.uk Your intelligence is vastly under-used From cella at het-nationale-ballet.nl Wed Sep 25 04:50:02 2002 From: cella at het-nationale-ballet.nl (I-Corporate News) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Reduce Travel Costs Message-ID: <000057c7762e$00007db5$0000274a@mail.hermesdvs.nl> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/belfast-pm/attachments/20020924/cc342b20/attachment.htm From tony at kasei.com Wed Sep 25 05:23:21 2002 From: tony at kasei.com (Tony Bowden) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Books For Review In-Reply-To: <20020830153819.GA30065@soto.kasei.com> References: <20020830153819.GA30065@soto.kasei.com> Message-ID: <20020925102321.GA21675@soto.kasei.com> On Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 04:38:19PM +0100, Tony Bowden wrote: > Manning have sent us: > Extending and Embedding Perl > Sams have sent us: > Perl Developer's Dictionary > mod_perl Developer's Cookbook > Teach Yourself Perl in 21 Days So, We ever going to get reviews of any of these? Tony From swm at swmcc.com Wed Sep 25 05:26:54 2002 From: swm at swmcc.com (Stephen McCullough) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Books For Review In-Reply-To: <20020925102321.GA21675@soto.kasei.com>; from tony@kasei.com on Wed, Sep 25, 2002 at 11:23:21AM +0100 References: <20020830153819.GA30065@soto.kasei.com> <20020925102321.GA21675@soto.kasei.com> Message-ID: <20020925112654.A10501@gandalf.swmcc.com> On Wed, Sep 25, 2002 at 11:23:21AM +0100, Tony Bowden wrote: > On Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 04:38:19PM +0100, Tony Bowden wrote: > > Manning have sent us: > > Extending and Embedding Perl > > Sams have sent us: > > Perl Developer's Dictionary > > mod_perl Developer's Cookbook > > Teach Yourself Perl in 21 Days Yes. I have started to read mine. I am currently learning about hashes. They are really handy, I must start to use them at work ;) Seriously though, yes you will have a review soon :) When is the next meeting then? Cheers, -- Stephen McCullough http://www.swmcc.com From Peter.McEvoy at barcouncil-ni.org.uk Wed Sep 25 05:45:29 2002 From: Peter.McEvoy at barcouncil-ni.org.uk (Peter McEvoy) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:49 2004 Subject: Books For Review Message-ID: > On Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 04:38:19PM +0100, Tony Bowden wrote: > > Manning have sent us: > > Extending and Embedding Perl > > Sams have sent us: > > Perl Developer's Dictionary > > mod_perl Developer's Cookbook > > Teach Yourself Perl in 21 Days > > So, > > We ever going to get reviews of any of these? > > Tony Given my very limited knowledge, and my very limited success with sams "perl in 24 hours", I wouldnt mind having a crack at reviewing "teach yourself perl in 21 days". I could have a review in, ohh, about 22 days or so :) Ta -- Pete From duggie-belfast-pm at blackstar.co.uk Wed Sep 25 05:54:10 2002 From: duggie-belfast-pm at blackstar.co.uk (Duggie) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:50 2004 Subject: Books For Review In-Reply-To: <20020925102321.GA21675@soto.kasei.com>; from tony@kasei.com on Wed, Sep 25, 2002 at 11:23:21AM +0100 References: <20020830153819.GA30065@soto.kasei.com> <20020925102321.GA21675@soto.kasei.com> Message-ID: <20020925115410.A15118@blackstar.co.uk> On (25/09/02 11:23), Tony Bowden wrote: > On Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 04:38:19PM +0100, Tony Bowden wrote: > > Manning have sent us: > > Extending and Embedding Perl > > Sams have sent us: > > Perl Developer's Dictionary > > mod_perl Developer's Cookbook > > Teach Yourself Perl in 21 Days > > So, > > We ever going to get reviews of any of these? > > Tony Yeah McCullough, your 21 days are numbered! Duggie From russell-belfast-pm at futureless.org Wed Sep 25 06:27:35 2002 From: russell-belfast-pm at futureless.org (Russell Matbouli) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:50 2004 Subject: Books For Review In-Reply-To: <20020925102321.GA21675@soto.kasei.com> References: <20020830153819.GA30065@soto.kasei.com> <20020925102321.GA21675@soto.kasei.com> Message-ID: <20020925112735.GA29291@futureless.org> On Wed, Sep 25, 2002 at 11:23:21AM +0100, Tony Bowden wrote: > > mod_perl Developer's Cookbook > We ever going to get reviews of any of these? I'm just back from holiday, so haven't had a chance. I've only read part 1 of 3 in the book, so I'll be a wee while yet. -- Russell Matbouli | russell@futureless.org | quota PGP KeyID: 0x3CA84CF4 | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.pm.org/archives/belfast-pm/attachments/20020925/7ed20ed5/attachment.bin From duggie-belfast-pm at blackstar.co.uk Wed Sep 25 06:30:41 2002 From: duggie-belfast-pm at blackstar.co.uk (Duggie) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:50 2004 Subject: Books For Review In-Reply-To: ; from Peter.McEvoy@barcouncil-ni.org.uk on Wed, Sep 25, 2002 at 11:45:29AM +0100 References: Message-ID: <20020925123041.A19975@blackstar.co.uk> On (25/09/02 11:45), Peter McEvoy wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 04:38:19PM +0100, Tony Bowden wrote: > > > Manning have sent us: > > > Extending and Embedding Perl > > > Sams have sent us: > > > Perl Developer's Dictionary > > > mod_perl Developer's Cookbook > > > Teach Yourself Perl in 21 Days > > > > So, > > > > We ever going to get reviews of any of these? > > > > Tony > > Given my very limited knowledge, and my very limited success with sams "perl > in 24 hours", I wouldnt mind having a crack at reviewing "teach yourself > perl in 21 days". > I could have a review in, ohh, about 22 days or so :) > Ta > -- > Pete Yeah, that's what McCullough promised. But, as you can see from this weblog : http://www.ninet.co.uk/weblog/learn_perl his efforts fell apart after day 3. Come on McCullough! Duggie From newsletters at the-financial-news.com Wed Sep 25 06:50:10 2002 From: newsletters at the-financial-news.com (The Financial News) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:50 2004 Subject: Development countries. News in brief Message-ID: The Financial News, September 2002 Production Mini-plants in mobile containers. Co-investment Program "...Science Network will supply to countries and developing regions the technology and the necessary support for the production in series of Mini-plants in mobile containers (40-foot). The Mini- plant system is designed in such a way that all the production machinery is fixed on the platform of the container, with all wiring, piping, and installation parts; that is to say, they are fully equipped... and the mini-plant is ready for production." More than 700 portable production systems: Bakeries, Steel Nails, Welding Electrodes, Tire Retreading, Reinforcement Bar Bending for Construction Framework, Sheeting for Roofing, Ceilings and Fa?ades, Plated Drums, Aluminum Buckets, Injected Polypropylene Housewares, Pressed Melamine Items (Glasses, Cups, Plates, Mugs, etc.), Mufflers, Construction Electrically Welded Mesh, Plastic Bags and Packaging, Mobile units of medical assistance, Sanitary Material, Hypodermic Syringes, Hemostatic Clamps, etc. Science Network has started a process of Co-investment for the installation of small Assembly plants to manufacture in series the Mini-plants of portable production on the site, region or country where they may be required. One of the most relevant features is the fact that these plants will be connected to the World Trade System (WTS) with access to more than 50 million raw materials, products and services and automatic transactions for world trade. Due to financial reasons, involving cost and social impact, the right thing to do is to set up assembly plants in the same countries and regions, using local resources (labor, some equipment, etc.) Science Network participates with 50% in the investment of each Assembly plant. For more information: Mini-plants in mobile containers By Steven P. Leibacher, The Financial News, Editor Mini-plantas de produccion en contenedores moviles. Programa de Co-inversion "...Science Network suministrara a paises y regiones en vias de desarrollo la tecnologia y el apoyo necesario para la fabricacion en serie de Mini-plantas de produccion en contenedores moviles (40- foot). El sistema de mini-plantas esta dise?ado de forma que todas las maquinas de produccion van instaladas fijas sobre la propia plataforma del contenedor, con el cableado, tuberias e instalaciones; es decir, completamente equipadas... y a partir de ese momento est?n listas para producir." Mas de 700 sistemas de produccion portatil: Panaderias, Producci?n de clavos de acero, Electrodos para soldadura, Recauchutado de neumaticos, Curvado de hierro para armaduras de construccion, Lamina perfilada para cubiertas, techos y cerramientos de fachada, Bidones de chapa, Cubos de aluminio, Menaje de polipropileno inyectado, Piezas de melamina prensada (vasos, platos, tazas, cafeteras, etc.) Silenciadores para vehiculos, Malla electrosoldada para la construccion, Bolsas y envases de plastico, Unidades moviles de asistencia medica, Material sanitario (jeringas hipodermicas, Pinzas hemostaticas, etc.) Science Network ha puesto en marcha un proceso de Co-inversion para la instalacion de peque?as Plantas ensambladoras para fabricar en serie las Mini-plantas de produccion portatil, en el lugar, region o pais que lo necesite. Una de las caracter?sticas relevantes es el hecho de que dichas plantas quedaran conectadas al Sistema del Comercio Mundial (WTS) con acceso a mas de 50 millones de mercancias, materia primas, productos, servicios y las operaciones automaticas de comercio internacional. Resulta obvio que por razones economicas, de costes y de impacto social, lo apropiado es instalar plantas ensambladoras en los mismos paises y regiones asi como utilizar los recursos locales (mano de obra, ciertos equipamientos, etc.) Science Network participa al 50% en la inversion de cada Planta ensambladora. Para recibir mas informacion: Mini-plantas de produccion en contenedores moviles Steven P. Leibacher, The Financial News, Editor ------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you received this in error or would like to be removed from our list, please return us indicating: remove or un-subscribe in 'subject' field, Thanks. Editor ? 2002 The Financial News. All rights reserved. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/belfast-pm/attachments/20020925/0dbb3f3e/attachment.htm From sales at virtual-biz.net Mon Sep 9 14:24:53 2002 From: sales at virtual-biz.net (E-Tax Dept.) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:51 2004 Subject: Outsource Your Sales & Use Tax Message-ID: <00000112012b$00003ba5$00003261@ns1.virtual-biz.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.pm.org/archives/belfast-pm/attachments/20020909/fef7e011/attachment.htm From sales at virtual-biz.net Tue Sep 17 04:42:15 2002 From: sales at virtual-biz.net (Tax Savings Co.) Date: Tue Aug 3 23:54:51 2004 Subject: No More Searching for Exemption Certificates! Message-ID: <00007ddf23c5$0000739e$00006584@ns1.virtual-biz.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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