From fred at alaska.net Mon Mar 1 10:33:32 1999 From: fred at alaska.net (Fred Steinberg) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Welcome! Message-ID: <14042.49500.394361.581795@hamish.gridpoint.com> Hello David- I, as the list admin, got your subscription message, and want to let you know the list is working. Obligatory perl content: you can indent a here document's end tag thusly: if (1) { $text = <<" END"; blah blah blah blah blah blah END } First trick I got from "The Perl Cookbook", an excellent book. From fred at alaska.net Mon Mar 8 15:32:13 1999 From: fred at alaska.net (Fred Steinberg) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Welcome! Message-ID: <14052.16861.226768.687716@hamish.gridpoint.com> Well now, it seems we've got some interest! Thanks to Arthur Corliss, who spread the word via the Linux Users Group mailing list. This is more or less the first thread on this list, so I guess intros all around are in order (one other person and I have been through this, but there's so many new members I figure we can start again). My name is Fred Steinberg; I'm the list admin, so feel free to direct complaints and suggestions my way. I've been using Perl on and off for 4 or 5 years now, and am currently using it to write a web-based interactive calendar. I don't have any plans for this group; I imagine as activity increases we'll arrange some sort of get-together. I know most of you are active in the Linux group, so feel free to use your experience from that to suggest what-all we should be doing! Arthur has registered a domain for us, and offered to host a web site as well. (Arthur, please speak up if I'm wrong.) Our first order of business might be to try and get that going. For some ideas, here's a list of the other groups, with links to their sites http://www.pm.org/groups.html From lsawyer at gci.com Mon Mar 8 15:31:15 1999 From: lsawyer at gci.com (Leif Sawyer) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Welcome! Message-ID: <99519A345401D211974600104B2A5A46016FAD10@algiers.gci.com> Cool! Wasn't sure how long until somebody spoke up, and I didn't want to be the first and only ghost out here. Not necessarily a perl monger, but definately a hack. I don't get down and dirty with the really obfuscitory coding that some people do, but I've written tons of little applets that make life so much easier for me at my work. Mostly stuff that massages input from an ldap database and creates/manages accounts based on the entries. Working on some perl/oracle ties right now. -- Leif Sawyer leif@gci.net || lsawyer@gci.com || internic: LS2540 (907) 868 - 0116 || ICQ - 3749190 || http://home.gci.net/~leif Internet Systems Engineer -- General Communications Inc. PGP Fingerprint: 77 C8 34 B8 FD BC C6 32 5F FE 93 4B AE 6C F7 4E > -----Original Message----- > From: Fred Steinberg [mailto:fred@alaska.net] > Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 12:32 PM > To: anchorage-pm-list@happyfunball.pm.org > Subject: Welcome! > > > Well now, it seems we've got some interest! > > Thanks to Arthur Corliss, who spread the word via the Linux > Users Group > mailing list. > > This is more or less the first thread on this list, so I > guess intros all > around are in order (one other person and I have been through > this, but > there's so many new members I figure we can start again). > > My name is Fred Steinberg; I'm the list admin, so feel free to direct > complaints and suggestions my way. I've been using Perl on > and off for 4 or > 5 years now, and am currently using it to write a web-based > interactive > calendar. > > I don't have any plans for this group; I imagine as activity increases > we'll arrange some sort of get-together. I know most of you > are active in > the Linux group, so feel free to use your experience from > that to suggest > what-all we should be doing! > > Arthur has registered a domain for us, and offered to host a > web site as > well. (Arthur, please speak up if I'm wrong.) Our first order > of business > might be to try and get that going. > > For some ideas, here's a list of the other groups, with links > to their sites > http://www.pm.org/groups.html > From corliss at sinbad.net Mon Mar 8 16:24:23 1999 From: corliss at sinbad.net (Arthur Corliss) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Welcome! In-Reply-To: <14052.16861.226768.687716@hamish.gridpoint.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Fred Steinberg wrote: > Well now, it seems we've got some interest! > > Thanks to Arthur Corliss, who spread the word via the Linux Users Group > mailing list. That was hard. ;-) > This is more or less the first thread on this list, so I guess intros all > around are in order (one other person and I have been through this, but > there's so many new members I figure we can start again). > > My name is Fred Steinberg; I'm the list admin, so feel free to direct > complaints and suggestions my way. I've been using Perl on and off for 4 or > 5 years now, and am currently using it to write a web-based interactive > calendar. Same here, though I imagine yours is more for collaborative scheduling. Mine's just because I've gotten too lazy to update a b-day & anniversary page for the Corliss Web, a site dedicated to the rather small family name. :-) > I don't have any plans for this group; I imagine as activity increases > we'll arrange some sort of get-together. I know most of you are active in > the Linux group, so feel free to use your experience from that to suggest > what-all we should be doing! > > Arthur has registered a domain for us, and offered to host a web site as > well. (Arthur, please speak up if I'm wrong.) Our first order of business > might be to try and get that going. Gotcha. I don't know if anyone here is graphically gifted, but we could whip up a template for a site in short order. A few ideas for content: Perhaps a web-based tip section (perhaps threaded like usenet, for variations and improvements. Perhaps a useful script archive for the "Perl can solve all Problems" department. ;-) Anyone have any others? Another order of business--do we have enough people who can get away once or twice a month to have a meeting? Perhaps we can have someone cover specific functions or modules each time. > For some ideas, here's a list of the other groups, with links to their sites > http://www.pm.org/groups.html --Arthur Corliss Bolverk's Lair -- http://www.odinicfoundation.org/arthur/ "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto From corliss at sinbad.net Mon Mar 8 16:25:59 1999 From: corliss at sinbad.net (Arthur Corliss) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Welcome! In-Reply-To: <99519A345401D211974600104B2A5A46016FAD10@algiers.gci.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Leif Sawyer wrote: > Cool! Wasn't sure how long until somebody spoke up, and I didn't want > to be the first and only ghost out here. > Not necessarily a perl monger, but definately a hack. > I don't get down and dirty with the really obfuscitory coding that > some people do, but I've written tons of little applets that make > life so much easier for me at my work. Mostly stuff that massages > input from an ldap database and creates/manages accounts based on > the entries. Working on some perl/oracle ties right now. I'd love to hear more about vendor specific DBI usage. Been meaning to dig into it more with MySQL. --Arthur Corliss Bolverk's Lair -- http://www.odinicfoundation.org/arthur/ "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto From rox at tara-lu.com Mon Mar 8 18:07:52 1999 From: rox at tara-lu.com (Roxanne Reid-Bennett) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Welcome! References: <14052.16861.226768.687716@hamish.gridpoint.com> Message-ID: <36E46658.B17C0080@tara-lu.com> Fred Steinberg wrote: [...] > My name is Fred Steinberg; I'm the list admin, so feel free to direct > complaints and suggestions my way. I've been using Perl on and off for 4 or > 5 years now, and am currently using it to write a web-based interactive > calendar. Hello Fred! I've been using perl for 4 years now. I did some interfacing with Msql in '96. Since then I've done general "hacking" together something for misc projects. Right now I'm finishing up a C->perl... SSLeay ... secure post ... perl->C mess for a remote customer. So I'm messing around with SSLeay, Crypt-SSLeay, and the perl-C interface under Stronghold. Rox (immigrant from the aklug list) -- Roxanne Reid-Bennett rox@tara-lu.com President, Tara-Lu Corporation http://www.tara-lu.com/ From lsawyer at gci.com Mon Mar 8 18:27:33 1999 From: lsawyer at gci.com (Leif Sawyer) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Welcome! Message-ID: <99519A345401D211974600104B2A5A46016FAD38@algiers.gci.com> Yikes! Have you looked at the PerlSSL mod? I'm just starting to pay attention to it, and see about installing it on a couple of our apache servers. I also want to see how well it integrates with the unix frontpage extensions, since my employer seems to want to have them available for some reason. Sigh. -- Leif Sawyer leif@gci.net || lsawyer@gci.com || internic: LS2540 (907) 868 - 0116 || ICQ - 3749190 || http://home.gci.net/~leif Internet Systems Engineer -- General Communications Inc. PGP Fingerprint: 77 C8 34 B8 FD BC C6 32 5F FE 93 4B AE 6C F7 4E > -----Original Message----- > Hello Fred! > > I've been using perl for 4 years now. I did some interfacing with Msql > in '96. Since then I've done general "hacking" together something for > misc projects. Right now I'm finishing up a C->perl... SSLeay ... > secure post ... perl->C mess for a remote customer. So I'm messing > around with SSLeay, Crypt-SSLeay, and the perl-C interface under > Stronghold. > > Rox > (immigrant from the aklug list) > -- > Roxanne Reid-Bennett rox@tara-lu.com > President, Tara-Lu Corporation http://www.tara-lu.com/ > From corliss at sinbad.net Mon Mar 8 18:37:50 1999 From: corliss at sinbad.net (Arthur Corliss) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Perl Projects Message-ID: Greetings: Fred and Roxanne already started off explaining a bit about what they're currently working on (Perl-wise), and it occurs to me that that is a good idea--each of us should throw out a quick tidbit on their current Perl projects. It'd be a great way to find out whose working on similar projects, and hopefully, do some cross-pollination of ideas. On my end, outside of a half-dozen CGI projects, my most important projects are the continued development of the Curses Widgets module, that can be found on CPAN, as well as a PIM that relies on the the former quite heavily. Note that I am definitely inclined towards console apps simply because I'd hate to not be able to get any work done just because X might not be working. That, and my laptop, due to hard drive considerations, doesn't have X. ;-) Both my PIM and the Curses module are in usable states now, and I may eventually offer GUI interfaces as well, using tk, gtk, or athena. But, the console comes first. :-) So, for you lurkers out there, what are you all doing? :-) --Arthur Corliss Bolverk's Lair -- http://www.odinicfoundation.org/arthur/ "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto From corliss at sinbad.net Mon Mar 8 18:39:42 1999 From: corliss at sinbad.net (Arthur Corliss) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Welcome! In-Reply-To: <99519A345401D211974600104B2A5A46016FAD38@algiers.gci.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Leif Sawyer wrote: > Yikes! > > Have you looked at the PerlSSL mod? I'm just starting to pay attention > to it, and see about installing it on a couple of our apache servers. > > I also want to see how well it integrates with the unix frontpage > extensions, > since my employer seems to want to have them available for some reason. > Sigh. Hey, out of curiosity, aren't SSLeay, and the like only available for non-profit use? And does anyone have information on the licensing costs of commercial implementations? --Arthur Corliss Bolverk's Lair -- http://www.odinicfoundation.org/arthur/ "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto From rox at tara-lu.com Mon Mar 8 19:14:05 1999 From: rox at tara-lu.com (Roxanne Reid-Bennett) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Welcome! References: Message-ID: <36E475DD.3EBD8E60@tara-lu.com> Arthur Corliss wrote: > On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Leif Sawyer wrote: [...] > > Have you looked at the PerlSSL mod? I'm just starting to pay attention > > to it, and see about installing it on a couple of our apache servers. No I haven't. I've looked at the specs for SSL - which is why I'm attempting to use the SSLeay interface instead of coding my own SSL post/response handler in C. [or more truthfully converting one to suit from the samples available in various (highly obscure) locations] > > Hey, out of curiosity, aren't SSLeay, and the like only available for > non-profit use? And does anyone have information on the licensing costs of > commercial implementations? No. "However"... The license actually reads "free for commercial and non-commercial use outside the US". It's available for use within the US fee free as far as the authors in Australia are concerned. However you have to license the RSA technology from RSA for commercial use. I think it's free to non-profits, or at least minimal fees. That's because of the Patent's that RSA holds on the RC4 (and RC2?) encryption modes. You can also attempt to build SSLeay w/o the RSA crypt stuff - but I haven't tried that. Rox -- Roxanne Reid-Bennett rox@tara-lu.com President, Tara-Lu Corporation http://www.tara-lu.com/ From tonyt at ptialaska.net Mon Mar 8 19:33:51 1999 From: tonyt at ptialaska.net (Tony) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Things I do With Perl In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mr. Corliss suggested we write about our use of Perl. Dandy suggestion. So, just to throw my Perl life into the mix: I work at SEARHC in Sitka, as the financial DBA/hack/sysadmin. We use an application called Banner (From SCT-- it's the same stuff UA uses) which is an app that runs on the Oracle db. So, naturally I use Perl/DBI. I first started using Perl about 18 months ago, when I started getting hammered with report requests. I guess Banner does not come with a plethora of reports, even stuff necessary for mandatory federal reporting. Yikes. So I created a web site, whipped up some forms, and used Perl to create the CGI/db hooks. I'm now working on a generic log-in-once system that allows the DBA to just drop reports in somewhere on the report path. I'm finished with the infrastructure; now I'm just converting my old reports to the new, generic format. Anyway, that's my Perl-life. As an aside, I will have FTP/web space on our corporate machine outside the firewall; this machine is in Juneau. I may be able to host some services there; maybe an FTP repository or a small, ancillary web site. - Tony From corliss at sinbad.net Mon Mar 8 19:36:39 1999 From: corliss at sinbad.net (Arthur Corliss) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Welcome! In-Reply-To: <36E475DD.3EBD8E60@tara-lu.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Roxanne Reid-Bennett wrote: > > Hey, out of curiosity, aren't SSLeay, and the like only available for > > non-profit use? And does anyone have information on the licensing costs of > > commercial implementations? > > No. "However"... The license actually reads "free for commercial and > non-commercial use outside the US". It's available for use within the > US fee free as far as the authors in Australia are concerned. However > you have to license the RSA technology from RSA for commercial use. I > think it's free to non-profits, or at least minimal fees. That's > because of the Patent's that RSA holds on the RC4 (and RC2?) encryption > modes. That's right. Kind of annoying not to have the same freedoms than the Outside. :-P > You can also attempt to build SSLeay w/o the RSA crypt stuff - but I > haven't tried that. What other algorithms would be usable, then, and how widely supported by browsers? I wouldn't have that the mainstream browsers would support much more than RSA. --Arthur Corliss Bolverk's Lair -- http://www.odinicfoundation.org/arthur/ "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto From corliss at sinbad.net Mon Mar 8 19:41:17 1999 From: corliss at sinbad.net (Arthur Corliss) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Things I do With Perl In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Tony wrote: > Mr. Corliss suggested we write about our use of Perl. Dandy suggestion. > So, just to throw my Perl life into the mix: > > I work at SEARHC in Sitka, as the financial DBA/hack/sysadmin. We use an > application called Banner (From SCT-- it's the same stuff UA uses) which > is an app that runs on the Oracle db. So, naturally I use Perl/DBI. Good, another one. :-) DBI is just the area I need to get more familiar with. What version of Oracle are you using? > I first started using Perl about 18 months ago, when I started getting > hammered with report requests. I guess Banner does not come with a > plethora of reports, even stuff necessary for mandatory federal reporting. > Yikes. So I created a web site, whipped up some forms, and used Perl to > create the CGI/db hooks. > > I'm now working on a generic log-in-once system that allows the DBA to > just drop reports in somewhere on the report path. I'm finished with the > infrastructure; now I'm just converting my old reports to the new, generic > format. > > Anyway, that's my Perl-life. > > As an aside, I will have FTP/web space on our corporate machine outside > the firewall; this machine is in Juneau. I may be able to host some > services there; maybe an FTP repository or a small, ancillary web site. On the subject of ftp, is there a local CPAN mirror in AK? --Arthur Corliss Bolverk's Lair -- http://www.odinicfoundation.org/arthur/ "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto From rox at tara-lu.com Mon Mar 8 19:59:33 1999 From: rox at tara-lu.com (Roxanne Reid-Bennett) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Welcome! References: Message-ID: <36E48085.948C37E8@tara-lu.com> Arthur Corliss wrote: >[...] > That's right. Kind of annoying not to have the same freedoms than the > Outside. :-P Well, that's the rich international patent registration field vs US NSA regs you're talking of. RSA isn't allowed to export the technology, so of course they can't have a patent on it outside the US > > > You can also attempt to build SSLeay w/o the RSA crypt stuff - but I > > haven't tried that. > > What other algorithms would be usable, then, and how widely supported by > browsers? I wouldn't have that the mainstream browsers would support much > more than RSA. Frankly, I'm not sure. However... The SSLeay doc itself indicates that you can use IDEA (easily hacked) or triple DES (paranoid minded) instead of the RSA techniques. I've noted with the interface that I'm playing around with more often than not (what little I paid attention to it), the SSLeay interface to Netscape Commercer Server picked triple DES. [it's a "auto-magically selected encryption algo depending upon what each side speaks"] That's about how much I know. There is a list of options for encryption that goes along these lines (for SSLeay): (from the README) > DES (1, 2, and 3 key versionf of ecb, cbc, cfb, and ofb; pcbc > and a more general form of cfb and ofb) including desx in cbc > mode. >> RC4 encryption, > RC2 encryption - 4 different modes, ecb, cbc, cfb and ofb. > Blowfish encryption - 4 different modes, ecb, cbc, cfb and ofb. > IDEA encryption - 4 different modes, ecb, cbc, cfb and ofb. > Digests > MD5 and MD2 message digest algorithms, fast implementations, > SHA (SHA-0) and SHA-1 message digest algorithms, > MDC2 message digest. A DES based hash that is polular on smart cards. > > Public Key > RSA encryption/decryption/generation. There is no limit > on the number of bits. > DSA encryption/decryption/generation. There is no limit on the > number of bits. > Diffie-Hellman key-exchange/key generation. There is no limit > on the number of bits. > > X509v3 certificates > X509 encoding/decoding into/from binary ASN1 and a PEM > based ascii-binary encoding which supports encryption with > a private key. I am *not* a crypt knowledgable person, so most of this is Greek to me. I did read a short lesson on cryptography for net transactions that explained some of the issues around trusted servers (hence the need for certificates from known issuers), spoofing, trojan, and other ways that people can get in the middle of a conversation and wreak havoc. I'm trying to keep my interface to a minimum, namely using layered perl products on an already installed version of SSLeay (with an already purchased license) for a customer who has purchased the right to use that version of SSLeay through the web interface. I've told my customer that I'm not 100% certain he's legal, even with this...the only way I know for him to be sure would be to contact RSA directly. Rox -- Roxanne Reid-Bennett rox@tara-lu.com President, Tara-Lu Corporation http://www.tara-lu.com/ From tonyt at ptialaska.net Mon Mar 8 20:16:27 1999 From: tonyt at ptialaska.net (Tony) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Things I do With Perl In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Arthur Corliss wrote: > On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Tony wrote: > > > I work at SEARHC in Sitka, as the financial DBA/hack/sysadmin. We use an > > application called Banner (From SCT-- it's the same stuff UA uses) which > > is an app that runs on the Oracle db. So, naturally I use Perl/DBI. > > Good, another one. :-) DBI is just the area I need to get more familiar > with. What version of Oracle are you using? Right now we're on 7.3.3.2, on a Solaris 2.5 box. I'm getting ready to move it over to an Enterprise 2 (dual proc 300Mhz Ultrasparc, 512M, 12G disks done up in a striped/duplex configuration). But we also use DBI for some in-house databases running on PostgreSQL. You mentioned MySQL? Do you have any specific project in mind? - Tony From kevinc at lansat.net Tue Mar 9 11:47:11 1999 From: kevinc at lansat.net (Kevin Creason) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Things I do With Perl References: Message-ID: <36E55E9F.964E887E@lansat.net> I've used perl to access Postgresql, MySQL, and Solaris system functions like useradd, passwd, create guestbooks, information forms, allow users to update mailing info, change password, etc, etc. I created a little utility to add to server-parsed web pages to log visitors, where they came from, referrals and things. It was easier than parsing out the Apache log files and distributing them to users interested in such statistics. Nothing terribly flashy, but functional. From hellefire at hotmail.com Tue Mar 9 12:33:25 1999 From: hellefire at hotmail.com (Aaron Blair) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Things I do With Perl Message-ID: <19990309183326.20698.qmail@hotmail.com> You are definitely one person I'm going to have to sit down and rap with one of these days...I am a newbie at administering Linux, and at Postgresql...but in the next two months I need to set up a Linux server running Postgresql...I'll see you at InstallFest or at one of the akluk meetings or perl meetings when we get those going...at InstallFest I'll be the hippy at the Active Internet Solutions table...drop by and say hi! Aaron Blair >Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 08:47:11 -0900 >From: Kevin Creason >CC: pmlist >Subject: Things I do With Perl > >I've used perl to access Postgresql, MySQL, and Solaris system functions >like useradd, passwd, create guestbooks, information forms, allow users >to update mailing info, change password, etc, etc. I created a little >utility to add to server-parsed web pages to log visitors, where they >came from, referrals and things. It was easier than parsing out the >Apache log files and distributing them to users interested in such >statistics. > >Nothing terribly flashy, but functional. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From corliss at sinbad.net Tue Mar 9 19:36:50 1999 From: corliss at sinbad.net (Arthur Corliss) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Things I do With Perl In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Tony wrote: > Right now we're on 7.3.3.2, on a Solaris 2.5 box. I'm getting ready to > move it over to an Enterprise 2 (dual proc 300Mhz Ultrasparc, 512M, 12G > disks done up in a striped/duplex configuration). But we also use DBI for > some in-house databases running on PostgreSQL. > > You mentioned MySQL? Do you have any specific project in mind? I started using it a bit for some in-house projects at GCI, but since I've left, the demand has lessened a bit. Currently, I do have some small POS/Inventory stuff I'm working on with Jan (Computer/Electronics), which is just using default db libraries. Would be nice, after we consolidate the design, to make it a bit more scalable with MySQL. --Arthur Corliss Bolverk's Lair -- http://www.odinicfoundation.org/arthur/ "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto From corliss at sinbad.net Tue Mar 9 19:33:12 1999 From: corliss at sinbad.net (Arthur Corliss) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Welcome! In-Reply-To: <36E48085.948C37E8@tara-lu.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Roxanne Reid-Bennett wrote: > Well, that's the rich international patent registration field vs US NSA > regs you're talking of. RSA isn't allowed to export the technology, so > of course they can't have a patent on it outside the US :-P We wouldn't have this problem if encryption wasn't a controled munition, though. > Frankly, I'm not sure. However... The SSLeay doc itself indicates that > you can use IDEA (easily hacked) or triple DES (paranoid minded) instead > of the RSA techniques. I've noted with the interface that I'm playing > around with more often than not (what little I paid attention to it), > the SSLeay interface to Netscape Commercer Server picked triple DES. > [it's a "auto-magically selected encryption algo depending upon what > each side speaks"] > > That's about how much I know. There is a list of options for encryption > that goes along these lines (for SSLeay): (from the README) > > I am *not* a crypt knowledgable person, so most of this is Greek to me. > I did read a short lesson on cryptography for net transactions that > explained some of the issues around trusted servers (hence the need for > certificates from known issuers), spoofing, trojan, and other ways that > people can get in the middle of a conversation and wreak havoc. > > I'm trying to keep my interface to a minimum, namely using layered perl > products on an already installed version of SSLeay (with an already > purchased license) for a customer who has purchased the right to use > that version of SSLeay through the web interface. I've told my customer > that I'm not 100% certain he's legal, even with this...the only way I > know for him to be sure would be to contact RSA directly. :-) Definitely some good info there, I appreciate it. I'll have to delve deeper into secure transactions eventually. . . --Arthur Corliss Bolverk's Lair -- http://www.odinicfoundation.org/arthur/ "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto From corliss at sinbad.net Tue Mar 9 20:02:13 1999 From: corliss at sinbad.net (Arthur Corliss) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Things I do With Perl In-Reply-To: <36E55E9F.964E887E@lansat.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Kevin Creason wrote: > I've used perl to access Postgresql, MySQL, and Solaris system functions > like useradd, passwd, create guestbooks, information forms, allow users > to update mailing info, change password, etc, etc. I created a little > utility to add to server-parsed web pages to log visitors, where they > came from, referrals and things. It was easier than parsing out the > Apache log files and distributing them to users interested in such > statistics. Hey, check out Analog, it's a superb log parsing tool (written in C). I think we've discussed the MySQL thing before, weren't you the one that had data sets upward of a gig being processed? Looks like I'll be talking to you on the DBI thing. ;-) --Arthur Corliss Bolverk's Lair -- http://www.odinicfoundation.org/arthur/ "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto From fred at alaska.net Wed Mar 10 11:01:55 1999 From: fred at alaska.net (Fred Steinberg) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: MySQL [Was: Things I do With Perl] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <14054.42371.107413.989273@hamish.gridpoint.com> >>>>> "Arthur" == Arthur Corliss writes: On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Tony wrote: >> You mentioned MySQL? Do you have any specific project in mind? Arthur> ...just using default db libraries. Would be nice, after we Arthur> consolidate the design, to make it a bit more scalable with MySQL. Same with the thing I'm working on; just using DBM. I'm not dealing with large amounts of data, so it's fast enough, though one day I might add MySQL support. Don't really need a full relational db at this point, though. Using DBM ties is so convenient, especially if you do something like use MLDBM qw(DB_File Storable); which lets you just spit any arbitrary perl data struct out to disk (and, of course, get it back later). From corliss at sinbad.net Wed Mar 10 11:29:01 1999 From: corliss at sinbad.net (Arthur Corliss) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: MySQL [Was: Things I do With Perl] In-Reply-To: <14054.42371.107413.989273@hamish.gridpoint.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Fred Steinberg wrote: > Same with the thing I'm working on; just using DBM. I'm not dealing with > large amounts of data, so it's fast enough, though one day I might add > MySQL support. Don't really need a full relational db at this point, though. > > Using DBM ties is so convenient, especially if you do something like > > use MLDBM qw(DB_File Storable); > > which lets you just spit any arbitrary perl data struct out to disk (and, of > course, get it back later). You know, that, with the data dumper, are modules I've yet to use. I probably should start thinking about that, but it's hard to change the mindset. Since some of the stuff I do gets distributed, I try to keep the dependencies at a minimum. But, occasionally, laziness overcomes that. . . What kind of overhead is entialed using it? In terms of compile speed, memory load, etc? --Arthur Corliss Bolverk's Lair -- http://www.odinicfoundation.org/arthur/ "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto From fred at alaska.net Wed Mar 10 11:46:34 1999 From: fred at alaska.net (Fred Steinberg) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: MySQL In-Reply-To: References: <14054.42371.107413.989273@hamish.gridpoint.com> Message-ID: <14054.45050.27797.603550@hamish.gridpoint.com> >>>>> "Arthur" == Arthur Corliss writes: > On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Fred Steinberg wrote: >> Using DBM ties is so convenient, especially if you do something like >> >> use MLDBM qw(DB_File Storable); >> >> which lets you just spit any arbitrary perl data struct out to disk >> (and, of course, get it back later). Arthur> What kind of overhead is entialed using it? In terms of compile Arthur> speed, memory load, etc? Dunno; I'm a die-hard empiricist. It seems fast enough for what I need so I haven't bothered to investigate. :-) From corliss at sinbad.net Wed Mar 10 12:04:07 1999 From: corliss at sinbad.net (Arthur Corliss) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: MySQL In-Reply-To: <14054.45050.27797.603550@hamish.gridpoint.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Fred Steinberg wrote: > Arthur> What kind of overhead is entialed using it? In terms of compile > Arthur> speed, memory load, etc? > > Dunno; I'm a die-hard empiricist. It seems fast enough for what I need so > I haven't bothered to investigate. :-) :-) Well, if it's not noticeable, I may have to tinker. .. --Arthur Corliss Bolverk's Lair -- http://www.odinicfoundation.org/arthur/ "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto From corliss at sinbad.net Wed Mar 10 14:44:07 1999 From: corliss at sinbad.net (Arthur Corliss) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Programming Certification tests Message-ID: Greetings: I saw this link on one of the Perl News groups. It's for a company that offers web-based certification testing, and for 30 days, the tests are free. All kinds of tests, from DBA, PLs, to Sys Admin. If you pass, they'll mail you a certificate, and keep a record on-line for prospective employers to check on you. http://www.tekmetrics.com/cert/certtop.html Check it out. The Perl test was actually kind of easy, but the Admin tests are pretty broad in coverage. All in all, about as much as one could hope, difficulty wise, for an open-book, multiple choice test. ;-) --Arthur Corliss Bolverk's Lair -- http://www.odinicfoundation.org/arthur/ "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto From corliss at sinbad.net Sat Mar 13 02:57:54 1999 From: corliss at sinbad.net (Arthur Corliss) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Logo suggestions or submissions? Message-ID: Greetings: I effort to get our site off the ground, anyone have any cool logo ideas, or page layouts? Looking for something creative, yet distinction, which is obviously not my strong point. Or, if you'd all rather take the low ;-) road, the folks at Gallant Tech have offered to come up with something, but with the caveat that they get to put the site design in their portfolio. Anyone? --Arthur Corliss Bolverk's Lair -- http://www.odinicfoundation.org/arthur/ "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto From rox at tara-lu.com Sat Mar 13 04:48:55 1999 From: rox at tara-lu.com (Roxanne Reid-Bennett) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Logo suggestions or submissions? References: Message-ID: <36EA4297.1E789BDC@tara-lu.com> Arthur Corliss wrote: >[...] > I effort to get our site off the ground, anyone have any cool logo ideas, or > page layouts? Looking for something creative, yet distinction, which is > obviously not my strong point. Ok, here's the question of the day. How much time do you (or anybody else on this list) want to spend maintaining the site. What do you want on it, and how much effort are you willing to put in to get it there or keep it there. To use one example ... AKLUG is *very* low profile that way. It doesn't even have "useful" links off it. [not that *I* would ever complain. Dee kept the pages and I didn't have to]. They're nice and "draw" traffic, but is that the purpose? What do you want the page to say about the group? What's its purpose in existing? - To tell people we'er "here" - To help people find resources ("any" resources) - To help people find local resources - To tell people about the group's activities - To ... Define it's purpose and a limit is set on structural form. [you don't "need" a fancy layout if all you say is "we exist" ] [Speaking of purposes... is there a specific overall purpose of Perl Mongers, and if so, what is it? If not, then what is the purpose of *this* Perl Mongers group? [or if there is, is there an additional purpose/goal for this group] ] > > Or, if you'd all rather take the low ;-) road, the folks at Gallant Tech have > offered to come up with something, but with the caveat that they get to put > the site design in their portfolio. I'm an ok technical graphical editor, but I've got all the creative talent for graphics of .. well we'll not go there. I suggest either "the low road" or just a "cool" lettered logo (much like the AKLUG of years 1-2.5). Either will get you "up" - neither will cost you a lot of time (or money). Rox -- Roxanne Reid-Bennett rox@tara-lu.com President, Tara-Lu Corporation http://www.tara-lu.com/ From corliss at sinbad.net Sun Mar 14 13:16:56 1999 From: corliss at sinbad.net (Arthur Corliss) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Logo suggestions or submissions? In-Reply-To: <36EA4297.1E789BDC@tara-lu.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Mar 1999, Roxanne Reid-Bennett wrote: > Ok, here's the question of the day. How much time do you (or anybody > else on this list) want to spend maintaining the site. What do you want > on it, and how much effort are you willing to put in to get it there or > keep it there. I'm willing to spend time each week maintaining/updating it, and we can easily spread that responsibility out among a core group. Obviously, Fred, being the leader of our local group, and anyone he appoints as backups. > To use one example ... AKLUG is *very* low profile that way. It doesn't > even have "useful" links off it. [not that *I* would ever complain. Dee > kept the pages and I didn't have to]. They're nice and "draw" traffic, > but is that the purpose? > > What do you want the page to say about the group? What's its purpose in > existing? > - To tell people we'er "here" > - To help people find resources ("any" resources) > - To help people find local resources > - To tell people about the group's activities > - To ... > > Define it's purpose and a limit is set on structural form. [you don't > "need" a fancy layout if all you say is "we exist" ] When the mailing list first started taking off, I mentioned that there's several things I'd like to see on a site, something that exceeds what AKLUG's site offers. Obviously, the contact info, meetings and announcements, etc., needs to be on there, but what about a threaded discussion group? How about a 'useful' script archive? Doing polls on various aspects of functions, coding contests, even Perl Poetry. I very much envision a site that would draw members to on a regular basis. > [Speaking of purposes... is there a specific overall purpose of Perl > Mongers, and if so, what is it? If not, then what is the purpose of > *this* Perl Mongers group? [or if there is, is there an additional > purpose/goal for this group] ] Everything about the Perl Mongers can be found that the International ;-) site, maintianed by brian de foy, who started all this, at http://www.pm.org. Basically, it serves two purposes: 1) Perl advocacy of sorts 2) Local peer groups for the advancement of Perl knowledge On the topic of the second, I can get space w/computers for us to play with during meetings. Those meetings would be great learning opportunities if we could get people to give talks about certain aspects or modules that they are intimate with. > > Or, if you'd all rather take the low ;-) road, the folks at Gallant Tech have > > offered to come up with something, but with the caveat that they get to put > > the site design in their portfolio. > > I'm an ok technical graphical editor, but I've got all the creative > talent for graphics of .. well we'll not go there. I suggest either > "the low road" or just a "cool" lettered logo (much like the AKLUG of > years 1-2.5). Either will get you "up" - neither will cost you a lot of > time (or money). Well, let's see if people are interested in a site with the goals I'm interested in, and take it from there. :-) --Arthur Corliss Bolverk's Lair -- http://www.odinicfoundation.org/arthur/ "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto From corliss at sinbad.net Thu Mar 18 12:28:27 1999 From: corliss at sinbad.net (Arthur Corliss) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Group Activities Message-ID: Greetings: Just wanted to touch bases with everyone and see who all would be interested in meeting for a Perl discussion, as well as other activities. :-) I'm not sure how many we have on this list so far, but it would be great to start something that will make it easier/more fun for us to share Perl knowledge. BTW, for you Oracle users out there, I've recently downloaded 8.0.5.1 (145MB!). I've heard some rumbling about a few changes in logging onto the system via DBI with 8+ revs. Any traps I need to be aware of? --Arthur Corliss Bolverk's Lair -- http://www.odinicfoundation.org/arthur/ "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto From fred at alaska.net Thu Mar 18 18:28:25 1999 From: fred at alaska.net (Fred Steinberg) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Group Activities In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <14065.39465.203290.369078@hamish.gridpoint.com> >>>>> "Arthur" == Arthur Corliss writes: Arthur> Greetings: Just wanted to touch bases with everyone and see who Arthur> all would be interested in meeting for a Perl discussion, as well Arthur> as other activities. :-) Sounds good to me; though I don't have any good suggestions for agenda items. Anyone got any ideas? From corliss at sinbad.net Thu Mar 18 19:13:04 1999 From: corliss at sinbad.net (Arthur Corliss) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Group Activities In-Reply-To: <14065.39465.203290.369078@hamish.gridpoint.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, Fred Steinberg wrote: > Arthur> Greetings: Just wanted to touch bases with everyone and see who > Arthur> all would be interested in meeting for a Perl discussion, as well > Arthur> as other activities. :-) > > Sounds good to me; though I don't have any good suggestions for agenda > items. Anyone got any ideas? I hope we're not the only ones on the list right now. :-P Where is everybody? How about these, for a few ideas: 1) Do we have a regex wizard in the group? How about some hardcore perlre demonstrations? 2) Anyone gotten on intimate terms with a certain module? How about some classes on usage? 3) How about some debates on optimisation, or even good coding styles? 4) Perl book reviews--anyone read anything interesting lately? These are just some ideas that we could all benefit from. Any other ideas out there? --Arthur Corliss Bolverk's Lair -- http://www.odinicfoundation.org/arthur/ "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto From tonyt at ptialaska.net Thu Mar 18 20:55:02 1999 From: tonyt at ptialaska.net (Tony) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Group Activities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, Arthur Corliss wrote: > > I hope we're not the only ones on the list right now. :-P Where is > everybody? Sitka. Drat. > How about these, for a few ideas: > > 1) Do we have a regex wizard in the group? How about some > hardcore perlre demonstrations? > 2) Anyone gotten on intimate terms with a certain module? How > about some classes on usage? > 3) How about some debates on optimisation, or even good coding > styles? > 4) Perl book reviews--anyone read anything interesting lately? > > These are just some ideas that we could all benefit from. Any other ideas out > there? Yeah-- advanced techniques like pass-by-reference (a cool trick I've picked up only recently, which proves I'm a slow learner), embedding Perl in applications, Perl/Gtk+ or Perl/Tk (for the GUI folks out there), things like that. But I can't attend, so it's a rather moot point. (I'm currently pouting, in a very manly fashion. Mmmm. Beer.) - Tony From corliss at sinbad.net Thu Mar 18 21:00:36 1999 From: corliss at sinbad.net (Arthur Corliss) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Group Activities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, Tony wrote: > > I hope we're not the only ones on the list right now. :-P Where is > > everybody? > > Sitka. Drat. That sucks. You'll have to let us know when you get into town. :-) > > How about these, for a few ideas: > > > > 1) Do we have a regex wizard in the group? How about some > > hardcore perlre demonstrations? > > 2) Anyone gotten on intimate terms with a certain module? How > > about some classes on usage? > > 3) How about some debates on optimisation, or even good coding > > styles? > > 4) Perl book reviews--anyone read anything interesting lately? > > > > These are just some ideas that we could all benefit from. Any other ideas out > > there? > > Yeah-- advanced techniques like pass-by-reference (a cool trick I've > picked up only recently, which proves I'm a slow learner), embedding Perl > in applications, Perl/Gtk+ or Perl/Tk (for the GUI folks out there), > things like that. All good ideas as well. :-) > But I can't attend, so it's a rather moot point. (I'm currently pouting, > in a very manly fashion. Mmmm. Beer.) :-) I'll drink one here for you as well. . . --Arthur Corliss Bolverk's Lair -- http://www.odinicfoundation.org/arthur/ "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto From corliss at sinbad.net Sat Mar 20 13:52:00 1999 From: corliss at sinbad.net (Arthur Corliss) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Meeting sometime soon? Message-ID: Greetings: Just thought that it would be a good idea to get everyone together for a face to face, since this group is just getting off the ground. Basically, this will be a chance for people to familiarise themselves with the others in the group, as well as go over some wish lists of activities and other such fun. Remember, this group is only going to be as successful as what the members put into it. So, would anyone like to eat lunch/dinner sometime soon to discuss the direction of the group? Drop me a line, and we'll get something coordinated. . . :-) --Arthur Corliss Bolverk's Lair -- http://www.odinicfoundation.org/arthur/ "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto From corliss at sinbad.net Sat Mar 20 14:16:24 1999 From: corliss at sinbad.net (Arthur Corliss) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Perl Debate Time ;-) Message-ID: Greetings: One of the semi-contentious debates I see on the newsgroups is on the use of local vs my. There's even been some rumbling about having local deprecated, though I doubt it'll ever be considered by the higher echelons. I'm bringing it up here just to see what our local programmers are doing, which they prefer, and what instances they'd use one over the other. Personally, I only use local (currently) for private subroutines within a subroutine. I hate polluting namespace. :-) My, of course, is used for everything else, especially since I religiously use strict mode. So, what preferences do you guys have? --Arthur Corliss Bolverk's Lair -- http://www.odinicfoundation.org/arthur/ "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto From tonyt at ptialaska.net Sat Mar 20 15:25:50 1999 From: tonyt at ptialaska.net (Tony) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Perl Debate Time ;-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Mar 1999, Arthur Corliss wrote: > Greetings: > > One of the semi-contentious debates I see on the newsgroups is on the use of > local vs my. There's even been some rumbling about having local deprecated, > though I doubt it'll ever be considered by the higher echelons. > > I'm bringing it up here just to see what our local programmers are doing, > which they prefer, and what instances they'd use one over the other. > > Personally, I only use local (currently) for private subroutines within a > subroutine. I hate polluting namespace. :-) My, of course, is used for > everything else, especially since I religiously use strict mode. > > So, what preferences do you guys have? I think those who want to get rid of "local" are wrong. They are two compoletely different operators, used for two different purposes. Variables declared with "my" are completely hidden from the outside world, /even subroutines called within the same block/, and /even if the subroutine is calling itself recursively./ According to "perldoc perlsub," NOTE: In general, you should be using "my" instead of "local", because it's faster and safer. Exceptions to this include the global punctuation variables, filehandles and formats, and direct manipulation of the Perl symbol table itself. Format variables often use "local" though, as do other variables whose current value must be visible to called subroutines. A local declaration is used when the variable must be visible beyond the scope of the enclosing loop, including called subroutines. Hope this clears up the confusion..... - Tony From corliss at sinbad.net Sat Mar 20 15:37:00 1999 From: corliss at sinbad.net (Arthur Corliss) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Perl Debate Time ;-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Mar 1999, Tony wrote: > I think those who want to get rid of "local" are wrong. They are two > compoletely different operators, used for two different purposes. I agree, and I get far too much use out of it for it to be dropped. > Variables declared with "my" are completely hidden from the outside world, > /even subroutines called within the same block/, and /even if the > subroutine is calling itself recursively./ According to "perldoc > perlsub," > > NOTE: In general, you should be using "my" instead of > "local", because it's faster and safer. Exceptions to > this include the global punctuation variables, filehandles > and formats, and direct manipulation of the Perl symbol > table itself. Format variables often use "local" though, > as do other variables whose current value must be visible > to called subroutines. > > A local declaration is used when the variable must be visible beyond the > scope of the enclosing loop, including called subroutines. > > Hope this clears up the confusion..... While I like the local operator, let me play devil's advocate and repeat some of the arguments I've heard: 1) Global variable space should be unpolluted as possible--any called subroutines should rely more on passed arguments than the checking of global variables. If a global must be played with locally, copy the value to a 'my' variable and pass as an argument. 2) Readability suffers. Perusing code is more difficult since you now have to attempt to track the scope of variables by the same name. Comments? --Arthur Corliss Bolverk's Lair -- http://www.odinicfoundation.org/arthur/ "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto From tonyt at ptialaska.net Sat Mar 20 16:00:05 1999 From: tonyt at ptialaska.net (Tony) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Perl Debate Time ;-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Mar 1999, Arthur Corliss wrote: > > While I like the local operator, let me play devil's advocate and repeat some > of the arguments I've heard: > > 1) Global variable space should be unpolluted as possible--any > called subroutines should rely more on passed arguments than > the checking of global variables. If a global must be played > with locally, copy the value to a 'my' variable and pass as an > argument. > 2) Readability suffers. Perusing code is more difficult since you > now have to attempt to track the scope of variables by the same > name. > > Comments? Use of "local" should be avoided, certainly. However, in some cases, it is desirable to override Perl's default global operators. For instance, if you want to put a stream filter on any handles, "local" is perfect. And since "local" variables are generally defined within the first few lines (usually after loading any modules), I don't think readabilty suffers at all. But, this is just my buck-ninety-five. I could be wrong. Certainly, "local" is misused; but in some cases, it makes coding must plain easier, and clearer. - Tony From corliss at sinbad.net Sat Mar 20 16:17:40 1999 From: corliss at sinbad.net (Arthur Corliss) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Perl Debate Time ;-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Mar 1999, Tony wrote: > Use of "local" should be avoided, certainly. However, in some cases, it > is desirable to override Perl's default global operators. For instance, > if you want to put a stream filter on any handles, "local" is > perfect. And since "local" variables are generally defined within the > first few lines (usually after loading any modules), I don't think > readabilty suffers at all. Hmm, have you looked at the Perl Cookbook? Seems TC likes to fork and grab STDOUT, for output preprocessing. What are the advantages of using local in this instance? > But, this is just my buck-ninety-five. I could be wrong. Certainly, > "local" is misused; but in some cases, it makes coding must plain easier, > and clearer. There's really not a right or wrong, just programmer's preference. :-) I can certainly see its uses, even though I tend to use it only for one thing. Though I do tend to side with the critics on the readability count--sure, coding is easier, but if the size of the program ramps up, I would be concerned with tracking relative scope, especially with code I haven't written myself. --Arthur Corliss Bolverk's Lair -- http://www.odinicfoundation.org/arthur/ "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto From fred at alaska.net Sat Mar 20 18:18:54 1999 From: fred at alaska.net (Fred Steinberg) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Perl Debate Time ;-) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <14068.15086.373349.344484@hamish.gridpoint.com> Tony> I think those who want to get rid of "local" are wrong. They are two Tony> completely different operators, used for two different purposes. Right; dynamic vs lexcial scoping. Completely valid concepts, i.e. this is not a debate about Perl syntax, it's a general concept. Tony> Variables declared with "my" are completely hidden from the outside Tony> world, /even subroutines called within the same block/, and /even if Tony> the subroutine is calling itself recursively./ According to "perldoc Tony> perlsub," ... Tony> Hope this clears up the confusion..... Indeed; a simple example always helps, in case anyone is still confused (and cares): sub printfish { print "$fish "; } $fish = 'halibut'; printfish; { local $fish = 'salmon'; printfish; } printfish; will print "halibut salmon halibut ". If you change the 'local' to 'my', you get: "halibut halibut halibut ". If you remove 'local' and 'my' altogether, you get: "halibut salmon salmon ". I tend to think of local as saving a temporary copy of the variable from the outer scope. I almost never use 'local', myself. But that's no reason to get rid of it. From wolfm at pobox.alaska.net Sat Mar 20 17:03:15 1999 From: wolfm at pobox.alaska.net (Michael Fowler) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Perl Debate Time ;-) In-Reply-To: ; from Arthur Corliss on Sat, Mar 20, 1999 at 11:16:24AM -0900 References: Message-ID: <19990320140315.A634@pobox.alaska.net> Personally, I consider local invaluable. It makes the code I write, when doing certain things, far more readable. For example: # Without local my($backup_sig) = $SIG{__DIE__}; $SIG{__DIE__} = 'IGNORE'; # ignore die requests # code you don't want killing the entire program if it dies # goes here $SIG{__DIE__} = $backup_sig; As opposed to: # With local { local($SIG{__DIE__}) = 'IGNORE'; # code you don't want killing the entire program if it dies # goes here } To me, the latter is far cleaner, and easier to read. This is my primary use of local. Most programmers who use local where they could use my are doing so for one of several reasons: 1) They think Perl 4 is still widely in use, and are trying to be backward compatible. 2) The program used to be Perl 4, and noone took the time to do a search, replace, and test. 3) The program still is Perl 4, and it miraculously worked with Perl 5, so noone changed it. The latter two, obviously, are dealing with legacy issues, and have more complications. The first, however, is impaired, imho. Perl 4 is pretty much phased out. Welp, there are my two cents. Respectfully, Michael Fowler On Sat, Mar 20, 1999 at 11:16:24AM -0900, Arthur Corliss wrote: > Greetings: > > One of the semi-contentious debates I see on the newsgroups is on the use of > local vs my. There's even been some rumbling about having local deprecated, > though I doubt it'll ever be considered by the higher echelons. > > I'm bringing it up here just to see what our local programmers are doing, > which they prefer, and what instances they'd use one over the other. > > Personally, I only use local (currently) for private subroutines within a > subroutine. I hate polluting namespace. :-) My, of course, is used for > everything else, especially since I religiously use strict mode. > > So, what preferences do you guys have? > > --Arthur Corliss > Bolverk's Lair -- http://www.odinicfoundation.org/arthur/ > "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto From corliss at sinbad.net Sat Mar 20 19:25:14 1999 From: corliss at sinbad.net (Arthur Corliss) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Perl Debate Time ;-) In-Reply-To: <14068.15086.373349.344484@hamish.gridpoint.com> Message-ID: :-) Ahh, there *is* life on this list! ;-) On Sat, 20 Mar 1999, Fred Steinberg wrote: > Tony> I think those who want to get rid of "local" are wrong. They are two > Tony> completely different operators, used for two different purposes. > > Right; dynamic vs lexcial scoping. Completely valid concepts, i.e. this is > not a debate about Perl syntax, it's a general concept. Actually, proponents of its demise do take exception to its use syntactically, mostly because of what it does to readability, especially in larger programs. I have to think that the differences are generally understood, the question is does the need for such subtle differences demand its presence, or could they be handle better another way? > I almost never use 'local', myself. But that's no reason to get rid of it. I agree, this is definitely more of a stylistic debate than anything else, and I do use local frequently, myself, though just for private subs. I am curious, however to see how often people use the localised scope function in lieu of passing values or refs. --Arthur Corliss Bolverk's Lair -- http://www.odinicfoundation.org/arthur/ "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto From corliss at sinbad.net Sat Mar 20 19:32:19 1999 From: corliss at sinbad.net (Arthur Corliss) Date: Wed Aug 4 23:56:52 2004 Subject: Perl Debate Time ;-) In-Reply-To: <19990320140315.A634@pobox.alaska.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Mar 1999, Michael Fowler wrote: > Personally, I consider local invaluable. It makes the code I write, when > doing certain things, far more readable. For example: > > # Without local > my($backup_sig) = $SIG{__DIE__}; > $SIG{__DIE__} = 'IGNORE'; # ignore die requests > > # code you don't want killing the entire program if it dies > # goes here > > $SIG{__DIE__} = $backup_sig; > > As opposed to: > > # With local > { > local($SIG{__DIE__}) = 'IGNORE'; > # code you don't want killing the entire program if it dies > # goes here > } > > To me, the latter is far cleaner, and easier to read. This is my primary > use of local. This is perhaps one of the best arguments I've seen for keeping local, overloading signal handlers. Good call. :-) --Arthur Corliss Bolverk's Lair -- http://www.odinicfoundation.org/arthur/ "Live Free or Die, the Only Way to Live" -- NH State Motto