From leira at MIT.EDU Tue Oct 11 12:42:09 2005 From: leira at MIT.EDU (Linda L. Julien) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:42:09 -0400 Subject: [ABQ-pm] new mailing list test Message-ID: <434C1591.9020004@mit.edu> If all went as planned, everyone has been moved from the old mailing list to the new mailing list. The old list address should still work, but please start using the new address. Thanks, Linda From havoc at harrisdev.com Tue Oct 11 13:19:11 2005 From: havoc at harrisdev.com (havoc) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:19:11 -0600 Subject: [ABQ-pm] new mailing list test In-Reply-To: <434C1591.9020004@mit.edu> References: <434C1591.9020004@mit.edu> Message-ID: <434C1E3F.2030806@harrisdev.com> Linda L. Julien wrote: > If all went as planned, everyone has been moved from the old mailing > list to the new mailing list. > > The old list address should still work, but please start using the new > address. > > Thanks, > Linda Linda, Can you set mailman to change the return address to the list rather than the individual who sent the message? If not, procmail will be happy to do it for me, but I thought I'd ask. j -- http://www.RealizationSystems.com/ -- start communicating http://www.GalacticSlacker.com/ -- read it and weep http://www.NMPerspective.com/ -- a Southwest Perspective From leira at MIT.EDU Tue Oct 11 15:12:31 2005 From: leira at MIT.EDU (Linda L. Julien) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:12:31 -0400 Subject: [ABQ-pm] new mailing list test In-Reply-To: <434C1E3F.2030806@harrisdev.com> References: <434C1591.9020004@mit.edu> <434C1E3F.2030806@harrisdev.com> Message-ID: <434C38CF.2010903@mit.edu> havoc wrote: > Can you set mailman to change the return address to the list rather > than the individual who sent the message? Technically: Yes, easily. Religiously: Well, I'm not so sure. I'm one of those people who feels very very strongly that mailing lists should not modify the Reply-To header that is set by the sender. I believe that the RFCs support this. For a well-written explanation of this side of the debate, see '"Reply-To" Munging Considered Harmful' at http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html. I find the "Principle of Least Damage" argument particularly compelling, as I've seen that sort of situation entirely too often. That being said, if the members of the list have an overwhelming desire to have it go the other way, I'll back down, though you may catch me on the occasional soapbox. So, what does this mean? A poll. Eh, the last question was closed anyway. > If not, procmail will be happy to do it for me, but I thought I'd > ask. I think that's a great option, actually (says the person who until recently had a .emacs file that did much the same). I'd love to hear what others have to say on the topic. Linda From marms at sandia.gov Tue Oct 11 16:02:28 2005 From: marms at sandia.gov (Arms, Mike) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:02:28 -0600 Subject: [ABQ-pm] new mailing list test Message-ID: <46EAC19F3066C14BB20DF799A649C5F401D23763@ES23SNLNT.srn.sandia.gov> Linda wrote: > havoc wrote: >> Can you set mailman to change the return address to the list rather >> than the individual who sent the message? > > Technically: Yes, easily. > > Religiously: Well, I'm not so sure. > > I'm one of those people who feels very very strongly that mailing lists > should not modify the Reply-To header that is set by the sender. I > believe that the RFCs support this. > ... > I'd love to hear what others have to say on the topic. I prefer not re-writing the Reply-To. That way hitting Reply sends it to the sender only. Reply All puts in the sender, the mailing list, and the original To recipient. Easy to edit to what you want. -- Mike Arms marms at sandia.gov From havoc at harrisdev.com Tue Oct 11 16:56:25 2005 From: havoc at harrisdev.com (havoc) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:56:25 -0600 Subject: [ABQ-pm] new mailing list test In-Reply-To: <434C38CF.2010903@mit.edu> References: <434C1591.9020004@mit.edu> <434C1E3F.2030806@harrisdev.com> <434C38CF.2010903@mit.edu> Message-ID: <434C5129.1060808@harrisdev.com> Linda L. Julien wrote: > I'm one of those people who feels very very strongly that mailing lists > should not modify the Reply-To header that is set by the sender. I > believe that the RFCs support this. > > For a well-written explanation of this side of the debate, see > '"Reply-To" Munging Considered Harmful' at > http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html. I find the "Principle > of Least Damage" argument particularly compelling, as I've seen that > sort of situation entirely too often. Hmm... I'd never considered it philosophically. In this case, the "Principle of Least Damage" conflicts with my philosophy of the "Principle that Group Communications Should Default to Group Communication." I've been thinking quite a lot about philosophies that we rarely take time to formally state lately. Fascinating. > That being said, if the members of the list have an overwhelming desire > to have it go the other way, I'll back down, though you may catch me on > the occasional soapbox. For the record, I do not feel strongly about this. I have procmail: :0f * ^Sender: albuquerque-pm-bounces at pm.org | formail -bfi "Reply-To:Albuquerque Perl Mongers \ " j -- http://www.RealizationSystems.com/ -- start communicating http://www.GalacticSlacker.com/ -- read it and weep http://www.NMPerspective.com/ -- a Southwest Perspective From havoc at harrisdev.com Tue Oct 11 16:58:09 2005 From: havoc at harrisdev.com (havoc) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:58:09 -0600 Subject: [ABQ-pm] new mailing list test In-Reply-To: <434C38CF.2010903@mit.edu> References: <434C1591.9020004@mit.edu> <434C1E3F.2030806@harrisdev.com> <434C38CF.2010903@mit.edu> Message-ID: <434C5191.9040904@harrisdev.com> Linda L. Julien wrote: > I'd love to hear what others have to say on the topic. and, for the record, thanks for explaining, and not just saying, "No, I don't like it." You're already turning out to be a huge benefit to the PM. jody -- http://www.RealizationSystems.com/ -- start communicating http://www.GalacticSlacker.com/ -- read it and weep http://www.NMPerspective.com/ -- a Southwest Perspective From havoc at harrisdev.com Tue Oct 11 17:07:06 2005 From: havoc at harrisdev.com (havoc) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:07:06 -0600 Subject: [ABQ-pm] hooking up Python (or other) code from Perl? Message-ID: <434C53AA.4000201@harrisdev.com> I have a little web app I've written, and I'm in the process of putting in the "hooks" for plugins. I got to wondering what it would take to allow people to write plugins in non-Perl (I know several Python programmers who may be interested). The way I'm doing the plugs is to have an array of plugins, the plugins set up anonymous coderefs, which are called at the appropriate times. When a coderef is called, it is sent a hashref containing whatever code is appropriate. Is there a way to send the hashref information to a Python (or other) script/program, in a clean and elegant fashion? Will I need to create a Perl wrapper for other languages? Thoughts? thanks, j -- http://www.RealizationSystems.com/ -- start communicating http://www.GalacticSlacker.com/ -- read it and weep http://www.NMPerspective.com/ -- a Southwest Perspective From kc5sbj at yahoo.com Tue Oct 11 17:32:27 2005 From: kc5sbj at yahoo.com (rodney wildhagen) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:32:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ABQ-pm] test Message-ID: <20051012003227.62470.qmail@web51613.mail.yahoo.com> test __________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From ken at lectrosonics.com Wed Oct 12 05:53:39 2005 From: ken at lectrosonics.com (Ken Long) Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 06:53:39 -0600 Subject: [ABQ-pm] new mailing list test In-Reply-To: <434C38CF.2010903@mit.edu> References: <434C1E3F.2030806@harrisdev.com> Message-ID: <434CB2F5.30623.36A168A@localhost> The purpose of a mailing list is to easily exchange emails between a large number of people. Replies should go to the list. Ken Long Albuquerque On 11 Oct 2005 at 18:12, Linda L. Julien wrote: > havoc wrote: > > Can you set mailman to change the return address to the list rather > > than the individual who sent the message? > > Technically: Yes, easily. > > Religiously: Well, I'm not so sure. > > I'm one of those people who feels very very strongly that mailing > lists should not modify the Reply-To header that is set by the sender. > I believe that the RFCs support this. > > For a well-written explanation of this side of the debate, see > '"Reply-To" Munging Considered Harmful' at > http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html. I find the "Principle > of Least Damage" argument particularly compelling, as I've seen that > sort of situation entirely too often. > > That being said, if the members of the list have an overwhelming > desire to have it go the other way, I'll back down, though you may > catch me on the occasional soapbox. > > So, what does this mean? A poll. Eh, the last question was closed > anyway. > > > If not, procmail will be happy to do it for me, but I thought I'd > > ask. > > I think that's a great option, actually (says the person who until > recently had a .emacs file that did much the same). > > I'd love to hear what others have to say on the topic. > > Linda > _______________________________________________ > Albuquerque-pm mailing list > Albuquerque-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/albuquerque-pm From liberty at unm.edu Wed Oct 12 08:32:56 2005 From: liberty at unm.edu (Guinevere Liberty Nell) Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:32:56 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [ABQ-pm] hooking up Python (or other) code from Perl? In-Reply-To: <434C53AA.4000201@harrisdev.com> References: <434C53AA.4000201@harrisdev.com> Message-ID: Are you already using Inline? http://search.cpan.org/modlist/Language_Extensions/Inline On Tue, 11 Oct 2005, havoc wrote: > I have a little web app I've written, and I'm in the process of putting > in the "hooks" for plugins. I got to wondering what it would take to > allow people to write plugins in non-Perl (I know several Python > programmers who may be interested). > > The way I'm doing the plugs is to have an array of plugins, the plugins > set up anonymous coderefs, which are called at the appropriate times. > When a coderef is called, it is sent a hashref containing whatever code > is appropriate. > > Is there a way to send the hashref information to a Python (or other) > script/program, in a clean and elegant fashion? Will I need to create a > Perl wrapper for other languages? > > Thoughts? > > thanks, > j > -- > http://www.RealizationSystems.com/ -- start communicating > http://www.GalacticSlacker.com/ -- read it and weep > http://www.NMPerspective.com/ -- a Southwest Perspective > _______________________________________________ > Albuquerque-pm mailing list > Albuquerque-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/albuquerque-pm > From havoc at harrisdev.com Wed Oct 12 09:02:19 2005 From: havoc at harrisdev.com (havoc) Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:02:19 -0600 Subject: [ABQ-pm] hooking up Python (or other) code from Perl? In-Reply-To: References: <434C53AA.4000201@harrisdev.com> Message-ID: <434D338B.5050205@harrisdev.com> Guinevere Liberty Nell wrote: > > Are you already using Inline? > http://search.cpan.org/modlist/Language_Extensions/Inline No, I wasn't. Thank you. That's a pretty amazing module. j -- http://www.RealizationSystems.com/ -- start communicating http://www.GalacticSlacker.com/ -- read it and weep http://www.NMPerspective.com/ -- a Southwest Perspective From liberty at unm.edu Wed Oct 12 12:36:48 2005 From: liberty at unm.edu (Guinevere Liberty Nell) Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:36:48 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [ABQ-pm] hooking up Python (or other) code from Perl? In-Reply-To: <434D338B.5050205@harrisdev.com> References: <434C53AA.4000201@harrisdev.com> <434D338B.5050205@harrisdev.com> Message-ID: Yes, its lovely. On Wed, 12 Oct 2005, havoc wrote: > Guinevere Liberty Nell wrote: >> >> Are you already using Inline? >> http://search.cpan.org/modlist/Language_Extensions/Inline > > No, I wasn't. Thank you. That's a pretty amazing module. > > j > -- > http://www.RealizationSystems.com/ -- start communicating > http://www.GalacticSlacker.com/ -- read it and weep > http://www.NMPerspective.com/ -- a Southwest Perspective > From allanemord at laguna-industries.com Wed Oct 12 16:35:11 2005 From: allanemord at laguna-industries.com (Allan Emord) Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:35:11 -0600 Subject: [ABQ-pm] new mailing list test Message-ID: Hmmm. I hadn't given this issue much thought - until now. As an administrator and a user, I have side with Linda on this one. The less we change base data the better off we are. When we automate "changes" or more correcty translations, we lose sight of the source data both in content and true source. Do not "munge" it. Keep it clean. Keep it simple. Allan Emord dba/systems programmer Laguna Industries, Inc PO box 1001 Laguna, NM 87026 voice: (505) 839 6349 fax: (505) 552-7642 >>> "Linda L. Julien" 10/11/2005 16:12:31 >>> havoc wrote: > Can you set mailman to change the return address to the list rather > than the individual who sent the message? Technically: Yes, easily. Religiously: Well, I'm not so sure. I'm one of those people who feels very very strongly that mailing lists should not modify the Reply-To header that is set by the sender. I believe that the RFCs support this. For a well-written explanation of this side of the debate, see '"Reply-To" Munging Considered Harmful' at http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html. I find the "Principle of Least Damage" argument particularly compelling, as I've seen that sort of situation entirely too often. That being said, if the members of the list have an overwhelming desire to have it go the other way, I'll back down, though you may catch me on the occasional soapbox. So, what does this mean? A poll. Eh, the last question was closed anyway. > If not, procmail will be happy to do it for me, but I thought I'd > ask. I think that's a great option, actually (says the person who until recently had a .emacs file that did much the same). I'd love to hear what others have to say on the topic. Linda _______________________________________________ Albuquerque-pm mailing list Albuquerque-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/albuquerque-pm From leira at MIT.EDU Sun Oct 16 18:54:16 2005 From: leira at MIT.EDU (Linda L. Julien) Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:54:16 -0600 Subject: [ABQ-pm] Reminder: Meeting tomorrow! Message-ID: <43530448.8070700@mit.edu> There will be a technical meeting of the Albuquerque Perl Mongers tomorrow (Monday, October 17th) from 7-9pm, at the LTER Network Office training lab, on the UNM campus. See the web site for details: http://albuquerque.pm.org/ Let me know if you plan to attend, and I'll try to acquire an appropriate amount of snacks. See you then, Linda From kc5sbj at yahoo.com Sun Oct 16 20:17:40 2005 From: kc5sbj at yahoo.com (rodney wildhagen) Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:17:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ABQ-pm] Reminder: Meeting tomorrow! In-Reply-To: <43530448.8070700@mit.edu> Message-ID: <20051017031740.78009.qmail@web51612.mail.yahoo.com> I expect to attend unless prevented. Not being familiar with the campus but having looked at the map can anyone recommend a parking location? Marshall? -Rodney --- "Linda L. Julien" wrote: > There will be a technical meeting of the > Albuquerque Perl Mongers > tomorrow (Monday, October 17th) from 7-9pm, at > the LTER Network Office > training lab, on the UNM campus. > > See the web site for details: > http://albuquerque.pm.org/ > > Let me know if you plan to attend, and I'll try > to acquire an > appropriate amount of snacks. > > See you then, > Linda > > _______________________________________________ > Albuquerque-pm mailing list > Albuquerque-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/albuquerque-pm > __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ From marsh at lternet.edu Mon Oct 17 08:01:52 2005 From: marsh at lternet.edu (Marshall White) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:01:52 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [ABQ-pm] Reminder: Meeting tomorrow! In-Reply-To: <20051017031740.78009.qmail@web51612.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The best place to park is off campus at one of the metered parking near central. You may be able to park in the parking structure or the the visitor lot but you may have to pay. Parking in the other lots on campus requires a permit until 8 p.m. I would reccommend parking near the Frontier or on Harvard Street. Marshall On Sun, 16 Oct 2005, rodney wildhagen wrote: > I expect to attend unless prevented. Not being > familiar with the campus but having looked at the > map can anyone recommend a parking location? > Marshall? > > -Rodney > > --- "Linda L. Julien" wrote: > > > There will be a technical meeting of the > > Albuquerque Perl Mongers > > tomorrow (Monday, October 17th) from 7-9pm, at > > the LTER Network Office > > training lab, on the UNM campus. > > > > See the web site for details: > > http://albuquerque.pm.org/ > > > > Let me know if you plan to attend, and I'll try > > to acquire an > > appropriate amount of snacks. > > > > See you then, > > Linda > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Albuquerque-pm mailing list > > Albuquerque-pm at pm.org > > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/albuquerque-pm > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Music Unlimited > Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. > http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ > _______________________________________________ > Albuquerque-pm mailing list > Albuquerque-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/albuquerque-pm > From liberty at unm.edu Mon Oct 17 14:34:42 2005 From: liberty at unm.edu (Guinevere Liberty Nell) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:34:42 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [ABQ-pm] Reminder: Meeting tomorrow! In-Reply-To: <20051017031740.78009.qmail@web51612.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20051017031740.78009.qmail@web51612.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I won't be able to attend. As for non-student parking, try the $2 parking next to Frontier. The block of Frontier restauarant (Harvard or Yale or something off University) there is a parking lot with a machine you pay $2 for all day or $1 for two hours, something like that. There are usually spots early in the AM (not helpful for you) and I think by evening it also clears out - more useful for you. On Sun, 16 Oct 2005, rodney wildhagen wrote: > I expect to attend unless prevented. Not being > familiar with the campus but having looked at the > map can anyone recommend a parking location? > Marshall? > > -Rodney > > --- "Linda L. Julien" wrote: > >> There will be a technical meeting of the >> Albuquerque Perl Mongers >> tomorrow (Monday, October 17th) from 7-9pm, at >> the LTER Network Office >> training lab, on the UNM campus. >> >> See the web site for details: >> http://albuquerque.pm.org/ >> >> Let me know if you plan to attend, and I'll try >> to acquire an >> appropriate amount of snacks. >> >> See you then, >> Linda >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Albuquerque-pm mailing list >> Albuquerque-pm at pm.org >> > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/albuquerque-pm >> > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Music Unlimited > Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. > http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ > _______________________________________________ > Albuquerque-pm mailing list > Albuquerque-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/albuquerque-pm > From marsh at lternet.edu Mon Oct 17 15:00:10 2005 From: marsh at lternet.edu (Marshall White) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:00:10 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [ABQ-pm] Reminder: Meeting tomorrow! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The metered parking ends at 6 pm. so you don't have to pay after 6. Marshall On Mon, 17 Oct 2005, Guinevere Liberty Nell wrote: > > I won't be able to attend. As for non-student parking, try the $2 parking > next to Frontier. The block of Frontier restauarant (Harvard or Yale or > something off University) there is a parking lot with a machine you pay $2 > for all day or $1 for two hours, something like that. There are usually > spots early in the AM (not helpful for you) and I think by evening it > also clears out - more useful for you. > > On Sun, 16 Oct 2005, rodney wildhagen wrote: > > > I expect to attend unless prevented. Not being > > familiar with the campus but having looked at the > > map can anyone recommend a parking location? > > Marshall? > > > > -Rodney > > > > --- "Linda L. Julien" wrote: > > > >> There will be a technical meeting of the > >> Albuquerque Perl Mongers > >> tomorrow (Monday, October 17th) from 7-9pm, at > >> the LTER Network Office > >> training lab, on the UNM campus. > >> > >> See the web site for details: > >> http://albuquerque.pm.org/ > >> > >> Let me know if you plan to attend, and I'll try > >> to acquire an > >> appropriate amount of snacks. > >> > >> See you then, > >> Linda > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Albuquerque-pm mailing list > >> Albuquerque-pm at pm.org > >> > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/albuquerque-pm > >> > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Yahoo! Music Unlimited > > Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. > > http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Albuquerque-pm mailing list > > Albuquerque-pm at pm.org > > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/albuquerque-pm > > > _______________________________________________ > Albuquerque-pm mailing list > Albuquerque-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/albuquerque-pm > From leira at MIT.EDU Tue Oct 18 07:25:30 2005 From: leira at MIT.EDU (Linda L. Julien) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:25:30 -0600 Subject: [ABQ-pm] O'Reilly books have arrived Message-ID: <435505DA.2040506@mit.edu> I got home from the meeting last night, and what did I find waiting for me? The books from O'Reilly. I don't have the list with me, but I know it included Perl Best Practices, Learning Perl, the new Perl Testing: A Developer's Notebook (where my module is mentioned!), and a couple of other things. I also have a huge stack of O'Reilly bookmarks with the code that will get us a discount on O'Reilly books (write to me if you want this code), and some little stickers with some sort of O'Reilly animal on them. I'll try to make sure these get to the next meeting. Linda From matt at mattorama.net Tue Oct 18 11:22:17 2005 From: matt at mattorama.net (Matt Grommes) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:22:17 -0600 Subject: [ABQ-pm] O'Reilly books have arrived In-Reply-To: <435505DA.2040506@mit.edu> References: <435505DA.2040506@mit.edu> Message-ID: <43553D59.2080402@mattorama.net> I just got Perl Best Practices and I really recommend it. I've been wanting Perl Testing, it looks like a winner too. I'd like the discount code. Linda L. Julien wrote: > I got home from the meeting last night, and what did I find waiting for > me? The books from O'Reilly. I don't have the list with me, but I know > it included Perl Best Practices, Learning Perl, the new Perl Testing: A > Developer's Notebook (where my module is mentioned!), and a couple of > other things. > > I also have a huge stack of O'Reilly bookmarks with the code that will > get us a discount on O'Reilly books (write to me if you want this code), > and some little stickers with some sort of O'Reilly animal on them. > > I'll try to make sure these get to the next meeting. > > Linda > _______________________________________________ > Albuquerque-pm mailing list > Albuquerque-pm at pm.org > http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/albuquerque-pm > From brian at cs.unm.edu Wed Oct 26 21:54:18 2005 From: brian at cs.unm.edu (Brian Arnold) Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:54:18 -0600 Subject: [ABQ-pm] Perl Best Practices Message-ID: I'll admit that I'm a fairly quiet member of this list (I've been on it for easily 3+ years and probably haven't sent more than 3 messages) because I haven't had much of a need for Perl (aside from personal fun) since moving back to Albuquerque. Well, that and I'm just not super confident of my abilities, as of yet. So, I'm taking an artificial life class at UNM this semester, and I wanted to take advantage of this class as a reason to flex what little Perl ability that I had, as well as to increase my abilities quite a bit. For example, I'm having to put a GUI on things (which I'm using Tk for now - it's not so pretty, but it's functional, which is sufficient for now). Having not done any real coding in Perl for awhile, I was totally lost - compound onto that how natural that object oriented programming feels for this sort of project, and me having never coded a module in my life, and sufficed to say, I've been utterly and completely lost. So, what do you do when you're this lost? You ask people. I asked Curtis "Ovid" Poe what the heck I should be doing. He pointed me at Perl Best Practices. Thanks to my handy dandy O'reilly Safari account, I've been reading through this book for about a week now, and it's been absolutely amazing. Using things like the Smart::Comments and Class::Std and Module::Builder modules, I've now got a functional (albeit not complete) Perl app involving three modules I'm building myself, and it all makes a lot more sense than it ever did. I feel like I'm probably a relative Perl peon on this list, but I think that every single one of us would benefit from at least a flip- through of this book. While I love access via Safari, I really need to pick up a dead-tree version really soon. This book has become a staple of my Perl library. I can't recommend it enough. I figured that my newfound love of this book would be a good reason to write out a message to this list. =) -- Brian Arnold brian at cs.unm.edu